Setting up a micro-distillery in a bar

[greenstiller]

Hi all, first time poster long time lurker.

My business partner and I are trying to set up a micro-distillery in our bar in Melbourne. We are going super small scale, a single 5 plate glass bubbler and 100L milk can boiler (all from 5star). Hoping to churn out about 25 - 35L per week of vodka and gin just to supply our own customers. Nothing too crazy.

Anyone have any experience setting up a commercial operation in an existing venue? We are just in the early stages of planning and negotiations with council and the ATO but I wanted to reach out and draw on the collective knowledge here about getting set up, licensed, etc. I don't know what I don't know so I thought I would start by asking for general experiences (good or bad) particularly in Vic but anywhere in Aus really.

[Wellsy]

Setting it up in a bar will cover off a lot of your council preparation of food requirements as well as permit issues.
The water authority may want you to put in a collection point so the ph can be adjusted before putting it into the sewerage system.
My understanding is the council will be your biggest hurdle but it is different for everyone.
The ATO will have some storage requirements in relation to bonded areas and storage.
I haven’t looked too hard just had a bit of a dabble into what would be required.
Good luck, once you get yourself sorted and covid restrictions end I believe many will want to come and introduce themselves as well as support your venture.

[bluc]

I have heard running a still while customers are in immediate area can cause safety issues-red tape Not sure of exact issues but prob worth looking into.. good luck :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[greenstiller]

Thanks guys. We aren't planning on running the still during hours of operation as a bar...but we do want the still out so people can gawk ;). I would imagine that would be a real issue.

I can't seem to find any specific guidelines in terms of how much space we will need. That is my real concern as we don't have a huge amount of extra room. We were hoping by keeping the amount we produce to a relatively small amount we would be able to get away with what we have. But I would love to know know exactly what space requirements are. Is that a council issue, and ATO issue or a Worksafe issue? The guidelines for handling hazardous materials are pretty general so I haven't nailed down specific requirements. Anyone been down this road?

[Nathan02]

Id go a reflux rig not a bubbler if your wanting vodka

[warramungas]

A lot of small distilleries miss an opportunity methinks.
While most people know, in the distilling world, white dog is ordinary by aged alcohol standards, there is definitely an opportunity to sell it as a novelty product. Some do but not many.
Labelled appropriately (xxxx anyone?) and cut correctly so no nasty surprises for the customer it could be a lucrative product stream in a niche market. Especially in a bar where you could 'roll your own' so to speak and maximise the return on the alcohol.

Good luck with your venture anyway. Hurdles are vast but ultimately the tax department will be happy to help you. After all, you want to give them more money. :))
Warra

[Wellsy]

Greenstiller I would start with the council.
the reqs are so different from one state to another, even one council to another. I do not believe there are any space requirements, my council did not even have storage limits of flamable materials. so much is about building usage, energy effeciencies, disability access etc. Lotsof lots of general stuff they dont seem to have anything specific for a distillery.

Start with your council mate and you will soon find out if it is a doable idea, or a dream that is just too hard

good luck

[RuddyCrazy]

G'Day Greenstiller,
Firstly welcome to the forum mate and I'm sure like I've since read since you started this thread idea's are flowing thru from forum members and it won't be too long before this forum is home to you for advise and reading. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Now how about this setup which will address the issue of distilling in the public and the required isolation it MUST have.

Setup the distilling room behind the bar and have a glass window showing the still in it's glory behind a locked door but on full view via the window over the bar so the customers can see first hand when the still is operating they can learn and become interested in the craft of home distilling but quietly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

The most important aspect if a customer asks to taste straight off the still is to tell them the cuts need to air for 4 hours to let the angels take their share then the cuts can be done. Then go on to say it will be week before any spirit can be tasted as the angels do need to take their share and after all we don't want to drink that do we.

Like any spirit the concept of hurry up and wait applys as time and the angels need to refine the spirit and for a feature put some fresh distilled stuff in a demi to show just how much the angels will take and explain how important it is for this to happen.

I'm sure we are all hopeful for you to get this venture going but reading, reading and did I say reading and go download the library we have on this forum and keep reading as no matter how one gets there is always a lesson to be learnt in this craft.

Cheers Bryan

[BlasphemousB]

Pretty much a dream job right there. I know there's plenty of hard Yakka involved but beats working the keyboard day in day out.

The missus has a home business and your food safety (think grain storage etc.) will be the biggest pain. Some councils are relaxed others are terrible.

All the best with your endeavours!

[greenstiller]

Thanks all. Really appreciate everyone's feedback and thoughts.

The bar is unfortunately not large enough for us to have a glass wall behind the bar. We were thinking about converting the area we currently use for live music and then moving that to another area. But we are talking small ---SMALL--- areas. Like 2x2m. We would have storage and fermentation in the back, but we are hoping that is sufficient space to run the still. We would need it behind glass if we were running during bar operation but we are hoping to just have the still as a show piece during service. Waiting to hear from council, who we have a good relationship with. Will update y'all when I hear.

However, we were also thinking that we could perhaps hold workshops and demonstrations on Sat or Sunday afternoons, small ticketed events. before we open for trade in the evening. This might be a great way to connect with the local craft distilling community. Would love to have a place where people can come and share their ideas and stories. We are really dedicated to the idea of creating community so this might be a way to tap into that. Let me know if that sounds like the kind of thing people would be interested in.

Also, if anyone is local and wants to earn a few bucks helping us get set up properly once we get approval PM me.

[The Stig]

If we didn’t have all these border clos downs I’d be there in a heartbeat .
Good luck A

[Wellsy]

Definitely looking forward to take a trip to melb so I can come visit mate.

If you are up in central vic and want to see a still running or even have a couple of samples you will always be welcome.

It might help to see how a few of us run our stills, do our cuts, and store our product. We all do it differently and you might be able to steal ideas that suit how you want to run things. Saves you having to reinvent the wheel.

You just need to get your posts up above 10 so that private messages can be sent to you

[BlasphemousB]

Pretty keen on seeing a something small scale in action! Once Lockdown 6.1 finishes of course.

[greenstiller]

Definitely looking forward to take a trip to melb so I can come visit mate.

If you are up in central vic and want to see a still running or even have a couple of samples you will always be welcome.

It might help to see how a few of us run our stills, do our cuts, and store our product. We all do it differently and you might be able to steal ideas that suit how you want to run things. Saves you having to reinvent the wheel.

That sounds like a great idea. Once the current storm passes maybe we can take a little still tour. It would be great to see what people are doing.

[The Stig]

How about a pic green ?

[greenstiller]

We just finished the first construction of El Diablo (or so he will be called) together to see how it fit. A fine rig. Thanks to Andrew at 5star for all of the helpful advice so far and of course the kick ass gear.

We haven’t started adjusting things to make space for it like the heater, lights, and piano but we just wanted to get a sense of what we are dealing with.

The plan is to use the 5 plates and packed section to make vodka. And then, once we have enough of that, to remove the packed section and one plate to make gin from a masticated 40% neutral wash.

Edit: not sure how to rotate pictures on this sorry

[Andrew]

Nice to put a face to the phone calls, txts and emails :laughing-rolling:
Glad your happy with the gear .
Cheers

[Wellsy]

Greenstiller
I will even collect you from the station, give you a feed, and get you back to the station after giving you some samples of the various configurations. Will even give you some food lol, will be basic mate, I hope you like vegimite sandwiches lol.

Seriously though the five star gear is fantastic but I think an afternoon watch how someone runs their still, t(en spending time watching others will give you a great idea in what will suit you best.

Another week or two mate and we will be out of lock down and we can sort out something if you have time. Lots of guys on here are happy to share info mate.one or two runs and you will have a better feel for your gear and then you will be ready for the public to watch. You definitely will need a bit of private time to learn what not to do . We all did :)

[The Stig]

We all need plenty of private time :romance-kisscheek:

[greenstiller]

Thanks for the offer. Most appreciated!!

The thing that would be most helpful at this point is if anyone would be willing to share a completed ATO manufacturing permit application or at least some of their approaches. It would be great to know what some of the best (I.e., most straightforward but acceptable to the ATO for calculating excise) practice is for measuring ABV, volume of bulk products, and accuracy of bottling. Anyone have any experience with this that they can share?