Anyone used Letric Washing Soda for low Wines?

[Stilldrinking]

Hey all,
I was curious if anyone has used "Letric" brand Washing soda (sodium
carbonate) for low wine treatment.

[Dig Brinker]

No but I've used it for severe bruising lol :laughing-rolling:

[Kenster]

Still.. yep... i use it and it is supposed to give a superior heads return as it converts the lactic acid (i think, from memory) into ethanol... i may be a bit off course, but YES... she is the go buddy.
If you google/search and read up more on it...you will find it is better to put straight into the low wines and cook straight away, whereas the Sodium Bicarbonate should be left in the wines for a few days before the cook... Bi carbonate slightly longer reaction time, chemically than the Carbonate.
Some on this site are not too keen and suggest that good cuts result in the same thing, but i like the Sodium Carbonate... the science has it for me.
If u read up about Calcium Carbonate (egg shells)... it does a very similar thing...havent used them myself, but may well do so in the future...coz i got chooks...lol

[Zak Griffin]

Run, Kenster, not cook.

We're not making crack here, although if you keep throwing shit in with the low wines you just might.

Slow fermentation and good cuts for me :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[xcvator]

Hey all,
I was curious if anyone has used "Letric" brand Washing soda (sodium
carbonate) for low wine treatment.

WTF why :think: :think:

[sp0rk]

Hey all,
I was curious if anyone has used "Letric" brand Washing soda (sodium
carbonate) for low wine treatment.

WTF why :think: :think:

Because science
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=20356
There's talk about this a fair bit on ADI, so I don't think it's just home distillers being greedy

[bayshine]

Just good cuts for me,but I haven't done to much research on the matter, but I would have to think doing this treatment to your low wines would add some unwanted flavours to your booze :think: and is probably one of the reasons why I can't stand to drink many store bought spirit these days. Maybe this is how bundy gets its bite :laughing-rolling:

[sp0rk]

Just good cuts for me,but I haven't done to much research on the matter, but I would have to think doing this treatment to your low wines would add some unwanted flavours to your booze :think: and is probably one of the reasons why I can't stand to drink many store bought spirit these days. Maybe this is how bundy gets its bite :laughing-rolling:

This is only really applicable for neutral, plus the salts formed should stay in the boiler, you won't taste anything ;)

[Sam.]

I have tried it in the past and found no noticeable difference in yield

[warramungas]

Can you show me the equation where lactic acid gets converted to ethanol?
While I'm only a padawan apprentice in chemistry pretty sure you only end up with sodium lactate and co2 as the products (other than h20) from that reaction. Not sure how that helps you with your yield. :think:

[warramungas]

Just did a little googling. Did he mean ethyl ethanoate? You could make ethanol from that with sodium carbonate but not sure how much would be in a wash?

[Kenster]

Spork... i am with you bud... science. The reasoning and theory is out there, some dont want to look too hard. You cant cure everything with cuts.

[Kenster]

I got some of the terminology ballsed up, but the guts of it is here...

Screen Shot 2016-10-05 at 7.54.02 PM.png

[Sam.]

I would love a chemist to fact check what it written there and if it really does apply.

I have found you can't take the HD homepage for gospel as a lot of it is outdated ;-)

[Flowerpot]

Just did a little googling. Did he mean ethyl ethanoate? You could make ethanol from that with sodium carbonate but not sure how much would be in a wash?

Only because you asked.....
Sodium carbonate works on acetic acid not lactic.

Read the Ethyl ethanoate wiki, particularly the opening paragraph and under the sub heading "occurence in wines"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate
The description screams "forshots/heads" to me.

Also have a read of this (the Hydrolysis using dilute alkali subheading is the important bit.)
http://www.chemguide.co.uk/organicprops ... lysis.html

Anyway in a nutshell
Sodium carbonate neutralises acetic acid giving sodium acetate
It also reacts with the ethyl acetate(ethanoate) to give sodium acetate and alcohol
sodium acetate has a very high boiling point so its left behind in the wash.

Well that's the theory, buggered if I know if its worth the effort though.

[xcvator]

Is it really worth the effort if it works? Making good quality spirit at home is just so cheap anyway :D , This just sounds like squeezing the peel and pips to get more orange juice to me :?

[Plumby]

Is it really worth the effort if it works? Making good quality spirit at home is just so cheap anyway :D , This just sounds like squeezing the peel and pips to get more orange juice to me :?

:text-+1:

[bayshine]

Is it really worth the effort if it works? Making good quality spirit at home is just so cheap anyway :D , This just sounds like squeezing the peel and pips to get more orange juice to me :?

:text-+1:

:text-+1:

[scythe]

I wonder how much it actually converts?
If we are cutting by smell and taste i guess it depends what we are smelling and tasting that we dont like.
If its not what this converts then it is a waste of time.

It may only get you an extra cut jar, so at 1L/hr and 250mL cuts, 15mins of extra spirit.
Meh.

[rumsponge]

Some of the chemistry in the above HD post is a bit dodgy, but the overall idea is sound. Is it worth it ? Not sure.Ethylacetate (CH3-CH2-O-C(O)-CH3) is one of the byproducts of fermentation thats probably the easiest to identify by smell (foreshots, early heads) so is easy to separate with good cuts. Imho, Its only really worth it if there is alot of it, but from my experience, in a good sugar wash (TPW) very, very lttle is produced in the first place.
cheers, rs