Newbie - 3" Reflux Design

[sam]

Hi all, hope you're all well and in good spirits,
I am new to this, I have been reading posts here for last few days and now have a very small understanding of this confusing hobby.
Over the years I have made home brew beer, as a youngster in bottles, then moved on to kegs, of which I have a reasonable grasp and hope will help with my new endeavour.
Lately I've been drinking more spirits than beer so I thought I'd try my hand at distilling. I wish to build my own still and I've attached a picture (hopefully) of my plan of action.
I have looked at the highly recommended slant plate design but I prefer the look of the off set head, strange/silly reason I know, but it is one!
Can someone with a good understanding of how these things work, help me out, by commenting on the design...

1) will it work?
2) will it work well and efficently?
3) what problems can be seen in the design?
4) what should I change?
5) will the heating element be sufficient? and if it's too efficient, how does one control the running temperature?
6) what sort of results should I expect in regards to the magic 95%?
7) ball park cost (broken down) of materials? excluding the boiler/element
7) anything else I havn't thought of!

Please help, thanks in advance and cheers!
Sam

[maheel]

it will work, i had one of these in 2" before i swapped to a BOKA many years ago.
it went OK and was capable of around 93% and they run pretty much the same as a bok.

IMO you only need one valve on the offtake and not one on the reflux return but 2 wont hurt just adds extra $$

i reckon the 2200 will run it but would be better with a bit more on the 3" i think say 3000w

while your building condenser adding in a liebig on the offtake tube to cool it down (the product)

price changes on what you pay for stuff, always hard to judge the costs unless you just go and price it all up

welcome to the forum as well :)

[Kimbo]

Hi Sam,
Welcome to the forum,
they do work and plenty of people use that design.
As Maheel said, 1 needle valve is enough. Keep it simple- for $$$ and :angry-banghead:
:handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[MacStill]

Hi Sam,
Welcome to the forum,
they do work and plenty of people use that design.
As Maheel said, 1 needle valve is enough. Keep it simple- for $$$ and :angry-banghead:
:handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Yes there's nothing better than a nice simple build is there :laughing-rolling:

[sam]

Thanks for the welcome & replys, I was of the understanding that if I place a valve on the reflux I could then shut that off and run it as a tall pot still, am I right in thinking this way?

Are the heights of the colomn and condenser ok?.. and the pipe sizing?

McStill you're giving me the impression that this "simple" still is inferior.

Cheers,
Sam

[MacStill]

No not at all mate, I was merely pointing out simple is good :handgestures-thumbupleft:

You'll see what I mean when you stumble across some of the amazing builds here bouts, just about to finish a not so simple one that's been giving me the shits :laughing-rolling:

The only thing with your design I can fault is column length, for 95% your going to want at least 1300mm & 1500mm would be ideal ;-)

[not alan jones]

"what sort of results should I expect in regards to the magic 95%?"

Just my opinion....

The difference between 93% AND 95% basically a wank :o

I have an old SS super reflux (stuffed with stainless pot scrubbers) that I use for my neutral, gives me 85%ish at the start of the run and goes down hill from there. But I do good cuts, and re-run my feints. The few fellow distillers I know (in the real world), all own "SS turbos" and get all excited about there magic 95% pissing contests, but not one of them would know their heads from their tails if their life depended on it. I have caused a red face or two in a direct one on one test (neutrals at 40%). I am not saying I am better than them, horses for courses and all that, but there is so much more to it than that magic number.
My workshop is just that, a place for work, and full of sawdust. I like to do my stillin' in my laundry where it is clean and safe.... and a little more private? That means no gas and everything is done on a benchtop, so column height is an issue :think:
Just sayin' that everything is a compromise for most of us and if a 900 column works for you then don't sweat it, just have fun.

In relation to the business of making good cuts ( and lots of other stuff), thanks to all the people on this site and others, but mostly here. It has been a steep but mostly enjoyable :laughing-rolling: learning curve. You know who you are :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[stubbydrainer]

hi Sam
and welcome to the forum, its a good place to hang out
Sam, I looked at the pic of ya future build and I don't see a vent to atmosphere, at the top of the condenser coil is a good place to have it , or you could end up with a bomb onya hands if you closed the take off valve. :o
I like how ya fitted a radio antenna on it , are ya gunna boom-box it ?? :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[MacStill]

"what sort of results should I expect in regards to the magic 95%?"

Just my opinion....

The difference between 93% AND 95% basically a wank :o

Oh really?

IMHO the difference between the two is massive, and anyone who gets the magic 95% is going to have some fun with your statement :laughing-rolling:

[Cane Toad]

Only 85% :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: Be better off running a pot still :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[Cane Toad]

And a hearty welcome to the forum Sam :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[R-sole]

To address your question; if you run with the off take valve wide open you should get nothing running through a well placed reflux return line.


To address the other statement; good cuts will always top any liquor made with a foreshots cut only. All cuts being equal, 95% liquor will top 93% liquor and they will both absolutely demolish 85% in a blind test.
Cuts being equal.

[Kimbo]

Here you go Sam :handgestures-thumbupleft:


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1163#p13598

[sam]

IMO you only need one valve on the offtake and not one on the reflux return but 2 wont hurt just adds extra $$

As Maheel said, 1 needle valve is enough.

if you run with the off take valve wide open you should get nothing running through a well placed reflux return line.

Hi Maheel, Kimbo & 5Star,
Thanks for responding, so just to confirm there is no benefit at all in placing a valve on the reflux return?... I'd prefer to build this thing once and if it is of any benefit to put a valve on the reflux, I'd rather do it to begin with.

Cheers

while your building condenser adding in a liebig on the offtake tube to cool it down (the product)

Would 1" or 3/4 over the 3/8 be better? do most use 3/8 for take off? or is 1/4 better?.. ie: what size tube should be used for the liebig and what length should I make it?

if a 900 column works for you then don't sweat it

Hi (not) Alan,
So a 900 column will give me 93%?
believe it or not I decided on this length so I could read the themometer :? seems like a stupid decision now that I think about it.
So there would be very little distinguishable difference in a length of 900 vs 1300?

Cheers

No not at all mate, I was merely pointing out simple is good :handgestures-thumbupleft:

You'll see what I mean when you stumble across some of the amazing builds here bouts, just about to finish a not so simple one that's been giving me the shits :laughing-rolling:

The only thing with your design I can fault is column length, for 95% your going to want at least 1300mm & 1500mm would be ideal ;-)

Ahh, ic McStill, thanks for putting my mind at ease, I was thinking I'd hate to put dollars into building it that way and ending up with a lemon.

I have seen some of the contraptions from yourself and others and find them mind blowing, they look pretty pricey, so I hope the bug doesn't bite me too hard.

Due to your familiarity with building, could you give me a guesstimate price on what I need?... excluding the boiler, element, keg to column connection.

How does one work out that's the required length of the column?

I do appreciate the responces, sorry if you find these questions ridiculous!

Cheers

Sam, I looked at the pic of ya future build and I don't see a vent to atmosphere, at the top of the condenser coil is a good place to have it , or you could end up with a bomb onya hands if you closed the take off valve. :o
I like how ya fitted a radio antenna on it , are ya gunna boom-box it ?? :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

Hi Stubby,

So the condensor is a sealed unit? and needs a hole in the top? if so, what size hole? how does one clean the condenser or isn't that necessary? what parts of the still wont require soldering?.. for cleaning, etc. Is it just the cap on top of the column that is left loose?

lol, antenna... is that your way of saying I need a digital thermometer?... or I dont need a thermometer at all if I already own a (boom box) stereo.

Appreciate the input.

Cheers

And a hearty welcome to the forum Sam :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers Cupcake

....well placed reflux return line.

5Star, can you please define "well placed".

Also, should I use 1/4 or 3/8 for the condenser coil... the ease of manufactor is less of a concern than getting it right the first time, especially if the condenser is a sealed unit.

Cheers, and again, thanks to everyone for helping me (try to) understand.

[MacStill]

Prices for copper pipe & fittings vary from place to place, I got some 3" pipe for $96 per meter & a 3x3x2 tee was $35... these are trade prices & you could expect to pay a lot more if you go to Reece plumbing ;-)

Ideal column height for 3" is 1300mm to 1500mm, height equals purity & volume equals speed.. on 2" pipe they say to times the diameter x 24 to get ideal column height, but that calculator doesnt seem to work with 3".

You can run a tall column quickly and get 93%, but you cant run a short column to get 95% & if your going to build it you might as well make it as good as it can be ;-)

[R-sole]

As far as your valve placement if you do a little research on artisan using rlm or reverse liquid management, that is the state of art atm with lm's. Saying you want to build it once and build it right i think the research will benefit you. 8-)

[MacStill]

Sam,

Some other useful searches for your research should include;

Reflux ratio

Centering rings (reflux centering)

Also, to answer your question about take off tube size.... on a 3" rig I'd recommend 3/8 tubing :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[sam]

Thankyou all for helping me through this...

I've had a read through some posts involving RLM and from what I can gather, putting a valve on the reflux return is beneficial as it will give me more control, I may well be wrong (likely) but my understanding is the more control the better, please shoot me down if I am reading this all wrong.

I understand I need to add a liebig condenser to the product line and I should make the product line and reflux line from 3/8 pipe, correct? so I'm assuming the liebig inner should also be 3/8, what size should the outer be to cool the product effectively?.. 3/4 or 1" ? and what length would it need to be?Either will work fine

I've messed around with the design (pics attached) and hopefully you can all give me an idea of which way I should go, I took a guess at how the coolant runs, through the liebig first then the condenser. Should this be reversed?... or do you cool the liebig and the condenser separately?I run mine Liebig first, then condenser ;-)

Is it worth having a sight glass on the coloumn to see what the reflux return is doing?... bit baffled as to how this is monitored without it, or if monitoring it at all is necessary.God idea, cant hurt ;-)

If I was to go with (design 4) I can purchase a "Y piece" which is 1/2 to 3/8 - 3/8 (pic attached) I could use reducers to get down from 3" to 1/2"... does this sound like a plan?I wouldnt bother ;-)

Many thanks again,

Cheers

Edited by Kimbo, :-D

[sam]

Thanks Kimbo,

What length do I make the liebig?

What do you mean by... "I wouldn't bother"?

Assuming you run the same sort of still... do you have some pics/plans of your still?

Cheers

[Kimbo]

I would probably just weld the reflux line direct into the reducer above your take off- its up to you :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Mine is a double reducer design ;-)