Gas choice hotter than Mapp

[bt1]

Got several experimentals I might as well finish.

Issue I've had is Mapp not hot enough for 2" really. Done all the hard yards packing up joints but regardless It starts but does not flow braze in smooth constant way.
No issues with smaller diameter tubes/fittings.

Really like to know if anyone has invested in LPG +Oxy. Told its more than sufficient for 2 -4" , reduced cost c/f acetylene.

comments, brand prices would be appreciated.

cheers
bt1

[R-sole]

I sometimes use oxy lpg. It's fine. Not as controllable as acetylene but you don't need to rent the bottle either.

So long as the lpg is set around the 130psi it's all good, can be fussy if pressure is out though.

[SBB]

Issue I've had is Mapp not hot enough for 2" really.

Id say your doing something wrong. Mapp will both soft and hard solder two inch very very easily.
Are you useing the right flux for the solder???..........is your job spotlessly clean?

[bt1]

Bloke,

soft soldering no issues.

My issues is with hard or silver soldering on larger joints.

I use Ezi-Welds 602 flux and Consolidated Alloys 2% Silver rods (as spec'd for AUS/NZ standards for potable water). it's the Yellow tip 2.4mm x 750mm rod size.

Flux is clean, job is clean. if this works for you can i ask what Mapp gun u use, tip type (swirl/ compressed etc) u use. Just Yellow berznomatic bottles ?

cheers
bt1

[SBB]

Yes 602 ezi-weld is the flux I use. Have no idea who makes the rods, but I do know the silver content is much much higher than yours......they have a blue tip. From memory about 45% silver.
Draino should know the exact silver content and who makes them as he uses them to......and takes notice of stuff like that.
The Mapp gas gun I use is borrowed from my Son when I need it .......I havnt looked at the size or specs on it.......tried to ring him to find out, no answer.... will get back to you about that one. It does use the standard yelllow bernzomatic bottle.
Ive just been and bought my self one which is a TS8000 but I have yet to use it so cant comment on it.

[MacStill]

I have OXY/LPG for brazing, it's great :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Heats up the join in a 1/3 of the time MAPP torch's do.

[Sam.]

Buy some 15% or 45% silver solder rods and have a crack before forking out for new gear they will flow a lot better than the 2%

[crow]

Mine is called an LPG Colt made by CIG I'd say it will do almost anything acetylene can without the cost of the bottle and gas , Mind you the oxy bottle and gas ain't to cheap either , around here Its about $130 from the smallest bottle ya can get and nearly that for the gas . I borrowed a mates and paid him for the gas for my little 2" job . now trying to learn how to use a propane torch :roll: got a feeling I'll be up grading to a mapp set up pretty soon but to be honest if I had the bucks to spare and enough brazing to do I'd be using the Oxy/LPG guaranteed

[R-sole]

Can't get the colt anymore more the pity.

Betestest most compact torch ever. :cry:

[MacStill]

Mine is called an LPG Colt made by CIG I'd say it will do almost anything acetylene can without the cost of the bottle and gas , Mind you the oxy bottle and gas ain't to cheap either , around here Its about $130 from the smallest bottle ya can get and nearly that for the gas . I borrowed a mates and paid him for the gas for my little 2" job . now trying to learn how to use a propane torch :roll: got a feeling I'll be up grading to a mapp set up pretty soon but to be honest if I had the bucks to spare and enough brazing to do I'd be using the Oxy/LPG guaranteed

Your not trying to braze with butane are you?

[crow]

The pin heads at bunnings told me to use it . They sold me the rods flux and bottle , i was doubtful and said ah wouldn't i be better of with the polypropylene yellow jobby . Nar fella all the stuff you need is what I gave you :roll: Damn just knew this shit wasn't getting hot enough wouldn't run properly , like working with half melted Plasticine . Same old toss that told me Aqua safe was no good for what I wanted :angry-banghead: . Seems the only thing he got right was that resin solder was no good probably shouldn't be in the plumbing section Edit Wish I could go back in time I'd have just got the oxy bottle I think

[MacStill]

OK now everyone can understand why your having so much trouble :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

Propane (blue bottle) for soft solder only up to about 3" pipe

MAPP (yellow bottle) for brazing upto 2" pipe and soft soldering larger diameter pipe

OXY for brazing everything

[crow]

Ok now I trust Bunnings advise for nothing so can I use my propane torch on the yellow bottle of shelve it and get one of those mapp jobs ,see them on ebay every day PS still think I put a fine oil coat in to the pipe surface though as it is only 1" and I couldn't get the plumbing solder to stick either

[stubbydrainer]

Can't get the colt anymore more the pity.

Betestest most compact torch ever. :cry:

I have a good colt oxy/acet set under the work bench somewhere, but I use the comet 3 always now

[R-sole]

The colt was the only torch that size that included cutting. Handy in tight spots and no great flapping levers to catch on stuff.

[bt1]

Hello all,

I truly want to get to the bottom of this so have done some homework and spoken to 2 vendors today who both offered the same views...roughly.

Firstly seems technology has moved a little and there are now a range of flux-less rods for brazing suited to our needs. They are what's called CU-AG-P or Copper-Silver-Phosphorus type and offer, no flux required, less cleanup, no flux discolouration, faster joins. Also completely ok for potable water/plumbing needs that we have. More importantly they have a lower melt point down to only 630c approx well with the Mapp gas range. This is some 230c lower than a std Cu-AG 2% rod.

btw what we call Mapp is not truly Mapp its a hybrid gas as per yellow bottles , bernzomatic and has a lower temp output but well sufficient for out needs.

It's true the higher the silver content the better is flow = the more ductile it is. A CU-AG-P @ 15% is 4 times (quoted) the flow of a standard CU-AG 2% rod I was using...I'm told.

Past 15% you start to sacrifice joint performance in terms of strength. This 15% grade has the ablity to take up to .127mm gap fill without issue and at intermediate gas application can "fill" larger areas but note with some skill..I'm told

I'm also told that some of the 45% silver rods are fast, good ductility but produce more fragile joints.

So I'm off this week to get some of these new Cu-AG-P flux less rods at 15%

cheers
bt1


http://www.silbraze.com/sba.html

[SBB]

I'm also told that some of the 45% silver rods are fast, good ductility but produce more fragile joints.

It might be a bit fragile for some jobs......But if anyone would like to try and tear the product offtake pipe from my 4 inch column with thier bare hands.......they are welcome to try. Or for that matter any other joint done with 45%.

[radiatorboy]

i use lpg and compress air. special torch mainly used it radiator trade. it can be set down to a small flame up to a big flame that can braze with. i'll take some photo tomorrow and post them. i also got tig and oxy has well at work.

[crow]

i use lpg and compress air. special torch mainly used it radiator trade. it can be set down to a small flame up to a big flame that can braze with. i'll take some photo tomorrow and post them. i also got tig and oxy has well at work.

far out that'll be neat . To tell you the truth I was thinking of hooking my oxy reg to the compressor hose and see what happens love to see how you got it set up will save ppl hundreds of bucks every yr if it'll work on oxy Lpg . MY way of thinking is it might not get quite as hot not using pure oxygen but shit if it takes a bit longer to gas ax who gives

[crow]

The colt was the only torch that size that included cutting. Handy in tight spots and no great flapping levers to catch on stuff.

Yeah just a little slide switch on top you can move with your thumb , weird they don't make these anymore