What should low wines look like?

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What should low wines look like?

Postby cdbrown » Fri May 25, 2012 12:37 pm

I've now done the stripping runs for 1st and 2nd gen UJSM. First low wines came out pretty much crystal clear until I got near 20%. 2nd low wines was crystal clear for the first litre but then next 2L and a bit it got more and more cloudy. I did cuts every 500ml and have had it in the jars since Tuesday and there seems to be small white particles now sitting on the bottom. Is this normal and should I expect cloudy low wines now that the wash is "sour"? Will the low wines be ok to use? Should I carefully decant the low wines off the white stuff and combine all the cuts or it doesn't matter and tip it all in together?

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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby Kimbo » Fri May 25, 2012 12:54 pm

cdbrown wrote:I've now done the stripping runs for 1st and 2nd gen UJSM. First low wines came out pretty much crystal clear until I got near 20%this is normal. 2nd low wines was crystal clear for the first litre but then next 2L and a bit it got more and more cloudy. I did cuts every 500ml and have had it in the jars since Tuesday and there seems to be small white particles now sitting on the bottom. Is this normal and should I expect cloudy low wines now that the wash is "sour"? Will the low wines be ok to use? Should I carefully decant the low wines off the white stuff and combine all the cuts or it doesn't matter and tip it all in together?It sounds like it could be either 1:the wash wasn't fully fermented dry, or 2: the wash wasnt cleared enough (crap in the boiler). Feel free to chime in anyone. or 3: running too hard? ;-)

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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby cdbrown » Fri May 25, 2012 1:26 pm

1: The wash had been in the fermenter for 7 days and I didn't notice any bubbling that morning I did the run
2: Boiler was clean - however I did get more wash out of the fermenter this time by tilting it, maybe sucked through yeast and other materials from the ferment?
3: Can it be run too hard? I thought the purpose of the stripping run in a pot still was to run it hard and fast. The wines were coming out in a steady stream with some slugging especially at the end. Seemed about the same speed as the first run but maybe it was quicker. Took about 1 hour from set up to backset back into the fermenter - I guess the stripping run took about 20mins once the foreshots had come through. That would be about 10.5 L/hr. Is there a good rate to aim for?
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby crow » Fri May 25, 2012 2:39 pm

Wild guess is ya wash puked up in to ya take off bud , mine always look like rain water :roll: Unless it pukes then it looks like that shit PS couldn't tell you what running to hard looks like as its just not possible with the bullshit burner I've got
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby maheel » Fri May 25, 2012 2:45 pm

i stripped some TPW today

100% clear as water like always

might have puked on you...
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby crow » Fri May 25, 2012 2:51 pm

Myself personally I wouldn't piss my pants over it , its just a stripping run it'll clean up in the spirit run . Most likely help add some nice flavor to it ;-)
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby cdbrown » Fri May 25, 2012 2:53 pm

So if it's puke is it still ok to keep for the spirit run?
Run it by itself to clean it?
Put it in the still with the next gen wash and strip it?
Ditch it?
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby crow » Fri May 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Don't fucking ditch it :doh: , best I let others give you advise that will be more sound than mine but if it was me I would throw it in with the spirit run as its only from a first gen and I would think could only help to add flavor to what would other wise be a fairly neutral low wines . yeah I guess If you were really stressed over it you could chuck it in the next strip but there are ppl who only reflux first gen's for neutrals because they think it lacks body ,yours sure the hell doesn't :))
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby maheel » Fri May 25, 2012 3:32 pm

cdbrown wrote:Put it in the still with the next gen wash and strip it


what i would do
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby bt1 » Fri May 25, 2012 5:43 pm

Ah the joys of double running..Glad I miss all this stuff...

guys given you the good advice seems so onwards to gen5

Might require a closer eye on boiler temps go forward so you know how hard you can run it without puking...best discover this well before spirit run.

cheers
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby Frank » Fri May 25, 2012 6:33 pm

:?
re the 'reasonable assumption' puking...is there ways to tell at the time on the striprun; other than what the 'settled' output looks like; (eg sound/smell/taste, I guess) so realtime adjustments can/could be made to save all this potential from 'contamination' ????
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby crow » Fri May 25, 2012 8:43 pm

yepo ya can hear it gurgle up the column , only has to happen once and ya don't EVER forget the sound :angry-banghead: @ Frank with the reflux I just turned the tap off and unplugged it for a min no probs with the pot well ya want to swap collection jars real quick and turn down the heat source , if thats wood ya might want to keep shovel handy :twocents-mytwocents:
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby bentstick » Fri May 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Yep that is :puke-huge: , I have learned that type of looking product 2 out of 5 AG runs (1st and last) runs and yes you dont forget that gurgle sound when it is on its way out the condenser! But good damn thing they are only spirit runs. I have to keep :violence-stickwhack: myself to slow the fuck down!
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby bt1 » Sat May 26, 2012 8:00 am

Hello CD,

went back and read your first run post...3lt from first run 3.5lt from next would then suggest the boiler had a lot more wash c/f 1st run. Reckon it might just be simple over filling boiler not heat control was the issue.
Be good to fill boiler with water measure it out so you know the exact capacity of the boiler. Once known then can allow a reasonable air/head space on top of wash to prevent puking.
With the narrower lyne arm/neck diameter would not take a lot of pressure to push wash through to collecting jars.I don't know of any exact measure for head space as a guide but would estimate own at about 7 -8% of a 50lt boiler but i really cram it in.
Perhaps 10 -12% would be a better number..especially for the spirit run. The taller config for spirit run would also make it less likely imho.

cheers
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby cdbrown » Sat May 26, 2012 11:30 am

Cheers for all the advice - I managed to get nearer to 4L out of it, most of the muck had settled out in the jars and looked like yeast slurry. I poured it to a 3L jar tipping out the last bits. It's cloudy but nothing like before. Next time I won't try and suck too much wash from the fermenter and I'll also slow it down. I didn't hear any gurgling but I wasn't listening out for it and I had me brew rig next to it heating and pumping water so was hard to hear anything. Could the slugging flow out into the parrot be a sign of puking as well? Then I could dial back the heat to get a steady trickle?
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby cdbrown » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:01 am

So I ran the 3rd gen wash last night and I got the same milky low wines. However this time I decreased the gas pressure to the burner and it clear it up. So going too hard was causing this problem. Took about 2.5hrs from set up to pack up which isn't too bad, but slower than before. When I go about making my own pot still is there any way to still be able to pump lots of heat into it but not get this muck coming through? The vertical pipe from the still is fairly short compared to the ones I've seen on here, could that be a reason?

I took a quick vid of the output during the first litre - when the it's about 2L of low wines that the cloudiness comes in, I didn't adjust the burner until the cloudiness came in.
Image

That output is about 1L per 6mins or so, once the cloudiness came through I reduced heat and of course the stream slowed a little more. Got about 3.8L out of 15L wash. This time I used 4L backset with 4kg sugar and 1/2L of grains and a bit of citric acid.

When it comes time for the spirit run I guess I'll have to dial the burner back once spirit starts to run and just get a trickle flow? (this is based on stripping runs are fast, spirit runs are slow).

Tomorrow night I plan on stripping the 1st gen barley, malted barley, wheat wash which looked to have fermented out in 3 days.
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby Cane Toad » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:30 pm

When I do a stripping run,it's normally hard and fast,had the 4"er puke a few times :laughing-rolling: using the 747,never worried about it coz when I do a spirit run I normally use some wash in with the low wines.Now when doing a stripping run I just collect it straight into an empty keg,no jars,just a piece of 100% silicon hose from the parrot outlet and in she goes :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby bt1 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:05 pm

CD,

i still think that the diameter and short column hieght causes a syponing/perculating effect with the still you borrowed. Given its age and design i could well understand a syphoning type charge up the column and into the output. It would have orginally been run on much lower heat inputs that we now use.

The other possible issue here is you add wash as cold volume. Once boiling and it expands the actual wash hieght could be extremely close to the top of boiler with little or no head space. That would be consistant with your comment about reducing heat imho.

The reason you don't hear the gurgling effect of puking i reckon is diameter of column. A 2" column (your new biuld) requires a major major heat over run to puke. It also gurgles as the syphoned volume rattles around and up the column. In a 50lt keg with 10 - 15% heads pace and a 2" column it won't be an issue, unless you use a flat out Mongolian 32jet burner or a DB747 as examples.

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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby cdbrown » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:59 am

Cheers cupcake and bt1.

Most videos and threads I've seen talk about a steady stream for strip and spirit run, just that the spirit run is slower.

I'm only putting in 15L of wash which only half fills it so I don't think the volume is the issue. As I don't know what the pipe looks like inside the cooler, I'm wondering if there's a slight low spot where the liquid is pooling, pool gets big enough it surges out to the parrot. I don't hear any noise from the still, just the burner sound.

The outlet of the pot is 2" and it quickly drops to 1" before then dropping to about 1/2" from a guess. This is not what I plan to make.
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Re: What should low wines look like?

Postby SBB » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Have you noticed if it "surges" more late in the run?????
If so the surging could well be caused by " Huffing" have you tried listening to the condenser. If you hear a panting sound that is the likely culprit. This sound will get worse in the later stages of the run and may not exist at all earlier in the run.
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