Diluting to taste and smell for tails?

[Puk]

Hi all,
I know it is only a couple of weeks old, but i just diluted a shot of the MacStill rum i made down to 40% and had a taste, and i am definitely getting some tails characteristics. I hope it doesn't ruin it and i am going to leave it a fair bit longer in the hope that it improves under oak enough etc.

Now keeping in mind that i made this batch on my airstill as i am still waiting for my keg boiler to get Tig welded up to run my pot still. (But i assume the same practices will apply on the pot still)

I read somewhere that it is a good idea to dilute the cuts where you are worried about getting into tails to %40 (drinking strength) before leaving them for the night (for the angels share) as it helps show hidden tails characteristics.

Do any of you do this, or just taste and smell them the next day at full strength before deciding what to put in and what to leave out?

I just want to know for future reference.
I need to get better every time i do a run or i am not learning.
Puk

[RuddyCrazy]

Puk it's good to see you are learning and taking cuts :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Now I'm not a rum drinker but the same results should be the same, now take a smell from what you know is hearts then smell the heads and you will soon find the difference in smell, now for the tails well they are a different story as some fractions do come over in early tails that we want.

By using your nose heads will smell like acetone where tails can have that smell of wet cardboard and a mangy dog it's picking that level where to cut off that makes that final drop and over time the nose knows where that cut off is.

Just remember a smell of hearts to tails should take time as it does take awhile for the nose to adjust all depending on the person.

Cheers Bryan

[Puk]

Thanks Bryan,
I have been doing that for a while now with the cuts, and i have the feeling that things will get easier with less smearing when i am using a pot still and doing a spirit run on the low wines from 3 x 24l washes that i have stripped, rather than the 4l at a time on an air still.


My question is really more about whether that "wet dog" characteristics of tails are more pronounced when the cut is diluted to drinking abv%, and whether this means everyone bothers watering it down before leaving it overnight?
Should i be doing this to ensure that i don't get any tails in my final blend?

Otherwise, will spicing the rum decrease the tails taste of this atch, or have i ruined it and need to put it through my mate's reflux still to recycle it into something useful?
Will ageing it help?

All advice gratefully accepted.

[The Stig]

Puk , when somebody says dilute to taste they are really only talking about a teaspoon full , not the entire jar .
Aging should be done around 60-65% so diluting to 40% would change the aging process.
I hate facebook for this very reason, bad info flies by in the blink of an eye and a lot of “newbies” (sorry) take that little fleeting info as gospel .
I smell , feel then taste, but it’s only a few drops on the spoon with a few drops of water .
I hope this helps

[RuddyCrazy]

ah yes the spoon method when I met Crow he taught me that :handgestures-thumbupleft: and some how I forgot to put it in my post but the Stig is on the boil and put in so mate yea the spoon tells all if you want to that way but smell in my book is the key :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers Bryan

[The Stig]

It’s also worth noting , for rums you need some early tails as most of the flavor is there but go too deep and you’ll ruin the whole batch.
It’s a fine line we tread

[BigRig]

I actually dilute lower than 40% for tasting/ smelling cuts. The flavours are more pronounced and easier to pick out what flavours you do and don't like.

My take on it is, even at 40% abv you will get some level of alcohol burn which can mask flavours.

As Stig said, only dilute a spoonful from each cut, not the whole thing.

As you get more experienced you will go deeper in to tails and age longer. Last thing, you also don't need to use whole jars.

[Puk]

Puk , when somebody says dilute to taste they are really only talking about a teaspoon full , not the entire jar .
Aging should be done around 60-65% so diluting to 40% would change the aging process.
I hate facebook for this very reason, bad info flies by in the blink of an eye and a lot of “newbies” (sorry) take that little fleeting info as gospel .
I smell , feel then taste, but it’s only a few drops on the spoon with a few drops of water .
I hope this helps

thanks Stig, that helps a lot.
I didn't really understand how i would dilute to taste/smell but then age at 60-65% (which i have been doing).
had never heard of the spoon method before in all my reading. I will give this a go from now on. It makes a lot of sense
And I have no dramas being called a newbie. We all have to start from the bottom at some point in anything new that we attempt.

Thanks for the advice. I think it is just what i was looking for.
Puk

[Wellsy]

Hello Puk
Getting your head around the cuts is the key so stick at it mate you are doing well :).
everyone has a different method, I use a syringe to get the measurement and dilute back to about 30% abv for tasting. High ABV can blow your taste buds out so you are not noticing things as easily.
The bigger boiler will make a big difference simply due to the volumes involved and the percentage ratio.
The airstill only has a 4 litre boiler so the output will be small, bigger output means you can take bigger cuts or more cuts making the change from hearts to tails easier to find.

As an example on the 4 litre airstill if you are taking 100ml cuts on a 40 litre boiler you could take 1 litre cuts for the same effect. So if instead you took 300 ml cuts on the 40 litre you are taking 3 times the number of jars so the changeover gets a little easier. In small volumes it just means everyth Is tightly compressed.

The more you do it the easier it gets

[Puk]

Thanks Wellsy.
I am also getting the impression that for a whisky that is less likely to be drunk with coke than some rums etc, that it might be a good idea to be a bit stingier than with a rum etc, and cut off the hearts a bit earlier?
Would this be a fair thought?

Puk

[Wellsy]

Honestly it depends on what you enjoy Puk, as well as how long you plan on aging it.
If you are going to leave it for 2 years or more your cuts can be more adventurous. Personally i still make tight cuts as I dont want to take a chance. Having said that some of my less successful efforts with Angel yeast is now turning out quite nice with the addition of time and oak.
If you are just starting i would suggest making tight cuts as you will be drinking it sooner and wanting to share with others.

The reality is it does not matter a damm what anyone else thinks as long as you enjoy what you are making nothing else matters :)

[howard]

i got a set of 3ml small droppers for diluting samples from jars.
after running the nose over the jars i have a good idea where heads/hearts/tails are.
then i just test the suspect jars only.
i have a pint of filtered water and a small tasting glass, a bucket of water to spit out and rinse the glass, pen & notebook to score/remark
i find my palate is best early doors before breakfast (so definitely no swallowing :? )
3ml from a jar plus 3ml filtered water.
rinse glass and drink water between tests.
some days the palate doesn't work too good, so i walk away (maybe after a curry night :smile: )