Nardy's rum log

[Nardy]

I figured I would start this thread instead of filling up the tried and true thread with my issues. Hopefully I have put this in the right forum, sorry if I haven't.

So...

I'm trying to make dark rum, but have no experience in doing so. I have been reading this site and others over the last month or so and from the info I have gathered, here is what I have been doing:

I have a Still Spirits super reflux 25L still (was given to me) and have read elsewhere that these can be setup to run as pot stills. All you do is remove all packing and re-route the cooling pipes (so they are only 'cooling' the liebig (am I correct in my terminology?).

Recipe was based on hook rum's recipe.

First batch
3L Molasses
2kg raw sugar
squeeze of lemon
1 Tbspn Tomato Paste
Topped up to 25L
Lowans Instant Baker's yeast (about 75g)

I let this ferment out for about a week and then ran through my still in a stripping run and collected everything down to about 20%. I got about 6.5L of distillate. I then ran this back through after diluting it to 30%. I then collected the first 100mL and put that into my heads jar for other uses. Then I collected in 700mL bottles and kept collecting until the still really slowed right down. I realise that the last portion of this was tails and kept it separate. I left these cuts overnight with no lids to air.

So then with the cuts, I blended hearts with heads and tails in various proportions in 6 separate bottles and added various ingredients (vanilla, cinnamon, sultanas, all with american oak chips) and left to age (at about 65%).

I poured 10L of the dunder after the stripping run into a fermenter for a recipe of:

Second Batch
10L dunder (1st gen)
3.5L Molasses
2kg raw sugar
1 Tbsn Tomato Paste
Topped up to 25L
Lees from previous ferment (once temp reached 36*C)

This one I left for about a week and after I had added the wash to the still and started heating it, I checked the hydrometer sample I had put aside. The gravity was only 1026. Anyway, I collected down to ~15% and put this aside. This time I planned to put a couple of stripping runs together and do a larger spirit run. I put 10L of dunder into the next batch and added the lees from previous ferment. Recipe was:

Third Batch
10L dunder (1st gen)
4L Molasses
2kg raw sugar
1 Tbsn Tomato Paste
Topped up to 25L
Lees from previous ferment (once temp reached 36*C)

After 3 days I added fresh yeast as the gravity had only come down to 1034. I gave it a good stir and moved the fermenter into a warmer spot, as I wasn't sure if the cool temps were also stalling the ferment.

And that's where I am at now. So my questions so far (which I may have asked elsewhere, but thought I would put them all in one thread):

1) Am I blending correctly? Any tips on ingredients?
2) Does my recipe include enough nutrients for a good ferment? Does my dunder cause ph issues that I need to fix?
3) Is raw rum usually this smelly? Mine stinks like apple pie. Tails smell like wet cardboard to me.
4) Is my still converted to a pot still really good enough to use for making rum?

My next batch will have a lot more molasses in it in an attempt to 'harshen' up my rum. Samples after 1 week ageing are very smooth (and stink).

[MacStill]

Awesome post mate, it's going to be so much easier to answer you seeing you gave so much info on what your doing and trying to achieve ;)

I'm a bit pissy now (rum) :lol: but will give you my thoughts once I've digested your questions.

I'll just say that your on the right track ;)

[SBB]

Good work Nardy......keeping good notes really does help a lot in this hobby.

I then collected the first 100mL and put that into my heads jar for other uses

The first 100ml is called Foreshots and is a bit different to Heads. My understanding is that its mostly made up of Acetone (nail polish remover) and methanol. When using my T500 I usually take off 150ml just to be on the safe side.
The only worry I have about using T500's in other ways is the plastic cap at the top. I managed to melt mine slightly which I'm pretty sure caused it to leak. Im interested to see how yours holds up.....maybe I was just unlucky. I wasn't using it as a pot still at the time...just let it get a bit to hot for a bit.
Im sure other will add to this and help out more
This link is worth a look ..as far as I'm concerned one of the best explanations of cuts available..it helped me heaps when I first started out. double click the diagrams to make them bigger, and read the lot............. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=11640
SBB

[R-sole]

700ml is probably to big for the transistions on a 25l boiler, i use 500ml on my 50l boiler.
A parrot would help you immensly and give you a lot more info to help with your cuts during the run and after.

Also if you keep dipping your finger under the output and tasting, you can get very close cuts that way and confirm/modify later once diluted. You'll know when the tails are starting to creep in.


The dunder ratio may be a little high at 45% odd of your wash volume, maybe cut it back to 5-7 litres.


Practice your cuts (it's easier on a full charge) and age with patience and it sounds like you are well on your way. 8-)

[Nardy]

Cheers for the tips guys, I'll drop the amount of dunder next time and collect my cuts in smaller containers. I'll try the dipping finger trick too!

My still isn't a T500, but one of the older super reflux jobbies, like this:



And I've just re-routed the cooling hoses.


I checked the gravity of the #3 batch again tonight and it's dropping slowly. Now at 1033. It has been a bit cool lately but I didn't expect it to slow this far.. I brew all grain beer - you reckon I should just pitch some US-05 into it? I have some cultures from an APA I racked today, maybe I should just throw that in?

[maheel]

did you wash the yeast from that APA ?

if it's just the turb it might have some residual hops and hop oil that might impact the stilling of the wash later ?
especially if you dry hopped etc.

i was thinking of using some turb out of my current AG beer brew but i dry hopped it with pellets and not sure of effect up the still later....
i got to bottle it tomorrow :)

[Nardy]

did you wash the yeast from that APA ?

if it's just the turb it might have some residual hops and hop oil that might impact the stilling of the wash later ?
especially if you dry hopped etc.

i was thinking of using some turb out of my current AG beer brew but i dry hopped it with pellets and not sure of effect up the still later....
i got to bottle it tomorrow :)

I did wash the yeast, yes - but I never thought about what hop residue might do in the still. Good point.

Regardless, I might just run this wash as is anyway. In the last 24 hours the gravity hasn't dropped at all, even after pitching more baker's yeast. So I will let it go until the weekend and run it Sat morning. Next batch will get less dunder and fresh yeast and see how that changes things.

[maheel]

i kept some turb from my AG beer today i bottled and considered dumping it into a TPW but decided against it
but later when washing out the rest i noticed most of the dry hop pellets material was in the fermenter * and did have a hoppy smell

i only kept about 750 including some beer in the bottle and not really sure how much hops (not a lot?) could be in it and what effect it might have in the still?

might mix up another tpw based one tomorrow and dump in the slurry and see what happens

[R-sole]

While ale yeasts are reccomended for whiskey (it's beer with no hops) i don't know whether they'll attenuate to the right degree for sugar washes...

[Nardy]

Out of the 6 bottles that are ageing, bottle #1 with some coke tastes pretty damn good so far. And smells alright too. No harsh, dirty smell or flavour that I like, but nice enough to thoroughly enjoy on a Friday night!

[Nardy]

Ran a stripping run on batch #3 this morning. Collected more than the last 3, so that's a plus. Will do a spirit run with the last 2 stripped low wines sometime during the week. I added the dunder to my dunder pit for use in the next batch.

Put on a TPW to build up some neutral stocks.

[maheel]

While ale yeasts are reccomended for whiskey (it's beer with no hops) i don't know whether they'll attenuate to the right degree for sugar washes...

i got NFI but i thought most yeasts would punch down to the 1.000 numbers based on sugar wash but in AG beer you just have more unfermentables based on the mash temps we look for keeping the FG higher ?

like i said i got NFI and am just guessing... and am very happy to be corrected

[R-sole]

I'm no expert either, but i've seen a lot of the stuff on the beer forums where guys will use one yeast over another depending on where they want the beer (mead,cideretc) to finnish.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index. ... ttenuation

Limit of Attenuation

The limit of attenuation is the sum of all the sugars, that the yeast is able to ferment, expressed as a percentage of the total extract content. Since ale yeasts (saccharomyces cerevisiae) can only ferment maltotriose to a third and lager yeasts (saccharomyces uvarum) can ferment that wort sugar completely, lager yeasts will show a slightly higher limit of attenuation for the same wort.
Other than this the limit of attenuation of a given wort does not depend on the yeast strain. It is solely set by the mashing process. All yeasts are able to ferment all the fermentable sugars (save for the lager - ale difference mentioned above) in a given wort. This fact is taken advantage of in a [forced ferment test]. The forced ferment test uses a sample of wort and pitches it with a large amount of yeast. To ensure complete fermentation this sample is kept warm and the yeast is regularly roused (shaking or stirring). Once the fermentation is complete the apparent extract is measured and the limit of attenuation for that wort can be calculated.

Yeast Strain Differences in Attenuation

If there are no limit-of-attenuation differences between the different yeast strains, why are there more and less attenuative yeast strains available?
Though yeast strains are able to ferment all the sugars in the beer, they usually don't get to. In contrast to a forced ferment test, beer is generally fermented at lower temperatures, with smaller pitching rates and without constant rousing. Because of that the yeast will not get a chance to ferment all fermentable sugars in the wort. Flocculation will cause it to drop to the bottom or collect on the surface where it doesn't have as much contact with the sugars anymore. Because of nutrient depletion and or high alcohol levels cells die before they get a chance to ferment every last bit of sugar in the wort. The result is left over fermentable sugars that play an important role in the character of the finished beer. The closer a beer's attenuation is to its limit the drier and less sweet it will taste. When looking at the attenuation ranges given for commercial yeast you will notice that the less flocculating a yeast is, the more attenuative it will be. This makes sense as the poorly flocculating yeasts will remain in contact with the wort for a longer time. The beech wood aging process used by Anheuser-Bush to brew Budweiser does exactly that without relying on poor flocculation alone; it maximizes the contact area between beer and yeast.
[Narziss, 2005] lists ranges for the differences between finished beer attenuation and limit of attenuation for some German beer types:
Helles : 2 - 4%
Export : 0.5 - 2 %
Pilsner : 0.5 - 4 %
Bock, Dunkel : up to 6 %
Example: A Helles with a target attenuation difference of 3% should be brewed. The wort has an original extract of 12.0 *P and a forced ferment test extract of 2.0 *P. The resulting limit of attenuation is 100% * (12-2.0)/12 = 83%. The target attenuation of the finished beer is 83% - 3% = 80%. This attenuation is reached when the beer has an apparent extract of 12 - 12 * 80%/100% = 2.4 *P. But hitting this number exactly is difficult. One way would be to regularly measure the extract of the lagering beer and pull it off the yeast into a serving keg when the desired final extract is reached.
Even if a brewer doesn't go to this extend of control over the beer, performing a forced ferment test and comparing the limit of attenuation to the current attenuation can be helpful in understanding the taste character of a beer. It shows if an unexpected high finishing gravity is due to problems during fermentation (low attenuation but high limit of attenuation) or due to problems during the mashing process (the limit of attenuation is also high).

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_terms.html

[Nardy]

Running the spirit run now on batch #2 and #3 low wines. About 1.5 hours into it and have already collected about 4.2L. Currently down to 73%. It's pouring out!

8-)

[Nardy]

So after 2 days airing I have sampled the product to see how I am going to blend it and OMFG. Waaay better than the first batch. The hearts at about the 2.1L mark are delicious. Smell great straight away and taste even better. Have I just made my first white rum that tastes good the way it is??

I also cut up an american oak wine barrel this arvo and have some sticks toasting in the oven. They'll be used to age this rum on and I reckon it will be a cracker.

[MacStill]

It'll only get better with time ;)

I had Ol'boy over here this arvo sampling some of my finest, two thumbs up and he's left a little wobbly :lol: :lol: :lol:

Give it at least 3 months to age on oak and you'll have a premium product, I'm at the point now where I know what the product coming out of the still will be like & if it is good it will end up excellent :mrgreen:

[Nardy]

So I blended and oaked the latest batch, now sitting in the spare room ageing away. Put a few more sticks in the oven and varied the amount of time they were in there. Added some dark toasted oak to one bottle and varied the others. I also dropped the cinnamon (except for one bottle) as it was coming through too much on my last batch.

Currently sipping one of the last batch's results - very tasty. Might be time to start another wash or two..

[Nardy]

Fourth Batch
7L dunder
4L Molasses
2kg raw sugar
1 Tbsn Tomato Paste
Topped up to 25L
Lowans Bakers Yeast

This one had been in the fermenter for 3 weeks - just running the stripping run on it now. FG still only got to 1028, so I'm guessing my dunder is causing issues? Either way, with that FG I am still getting quite a good yield out of the still, so no biggies.

I put the same recipe in for the 5th batch:

Fifth Batch
7L dunder
4L Molasses
2kg raw sugar
1 Tbsn Tomato Paste
Topped up to 25L
Lowans Bakers Yeast

So once that is fermented and stripped I'll run all of the spirit that I've been stripping together in a final spirit run (about 20L-ish).

The rum that has been ageing is getting better, but still tasting a little oaky - I wonder if I over oaked?

[Tracker]

Over-oaking is very easy to do and difficult to remove.
You could try blending with a more recent batch which has a lot less oak. Will not completely correct the issue but will certainly improve it.


Cheers.

[Nardy]

Well I ran the 5th batch through the still the other day and now have 3 stripped batches ready to run through once more - most like this weekend.

I blended some of the dark over-oak rum with some of the lighter stuff and ended up with a pretty good product - but I'm wondering now how I can get a dark rum that doesn't taste over-oaked?