Vodka/Neutral

[WTDist]

Hi. so i have been making vodka with my T500 for a while but i haven't really understood the idea of vodka. Ive been double distilling with cuts through the T500 but soon ill do a strip and reflux for vodka/neutral.

So far i have used vodka essences although i feel this is unnecessary and a HBS money grab? The more i read about vodka the more it seems to me like it is just neutral. I haven't bought many vodkas in my day but the misses likes it so i make it (and drink it also), also essence whiskey is crap :wtf:

One place i read about vodka mentioned that it is ran through a reflux still several times to obtain a a pure spirit of low cost.

Different vodkas have different mouth feels so im told (i wouldn't know), so im wondering if this is due to cuts or amount of times re distilled or does the base ingredients at the beginning have an effect on the final product even if it is refluxed 3 times? Like a WBABW against a TPW. Some say that a WBABW is better than a TPW even after it has been distilled a few times.

So my question is - Is vodka just neutral spirit with no flavor? when someone talks about neutral is it really another word for vodka and does the original wash play a part in the final flavour even after refluxed several times? :think:

Cheers

[Zak Griffin]

You go to the effort of distilling a wash to remove all flavor, then add flavouring? Vodka essence is a rort mate, worse than the turbo yeast and plastic carbon filter circus ;-)

[The Stig]

Lots of info here: http://www.tastings.com/spirits/vodka.html

[WTDist]

You go to the effort of distilling a wash to remove all flavor, then add flavouring? Vodka essence is a rort mate, worse than the turbo yeast and plastic carbon filter circus ;-)

Thats what i thought, Majority that i had made was in the past with turbos and they were not good unflavored with essence. tasted like metho. I think i added it to the last washes because i needed to clean my packing that left an unwanted flavor. had a feeling they were roarts :angry-banghead:

[WTDist]

Lots of info here: http://www.tastings.com/spirits/vodka.html

Cheers Stig. I just had a read and that answered my question. thanks. It is just a neutral.

So what is mouth feel that i hear people talking about between different washes? From what i read in the stigs post above im thinking a better mouth feel can be from harsh cuts and distilled more than just a few times regardless of the beginning wash type, anyone agree or disagree?

just curious is all as i will be making more in the future and i want it to be top shelf stuff :D

[RefluxEd]

Try a TPW (Tomato Paste Wash).
After finishing the ferment wait a week for it to settle. If you use a slightly higher sugar amount (in 200 litres I use 50Kg sugar), there may be a small amount of sugar still in the wash. This seems to be the case as it has a sweet taste and a smooth mouth feel.
When a give a bottle to some Russian car restorers near where I work, they are all smiles. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
They reckon it's the best tasting vodka ever and love the fact that they can savour it while drinking it slowly. :obscene-drinkingchug: In actual fact, it is just a neutral that's been diluted to 40%.
The vodka they normally use has to be thrown back with a shot glass so that it gets past their taste buds quickly without leaving a bad taste.

[dogbreath vodka]

IF you still can taste flavours you don't want. . . . wait 12 months.
Time is your friend -
Over time a lot of the slightly off flavours will disappear.
Was drinking a 12 month old neutral (vodka :roll: ) last night.
Could just taste . . . . something. It wasn't off it was just a taste.
With a dash of bitters all I could taste was the bitters. :D :handgestures-thumbupleft:

DBV

[WTDist]

Cheers guys that was helpful.
I just read page 14 on vodkas on Making gin&vodka a professional guide for amateur distiller which was also helpful :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Ive got some off tasting vodka at the moment, about 2L left. I ran it twice through the T500 and was still off. Turns out the packing wasn't cleaned good enough :angry-banghead:
Like an off wine taste. Only tastes good with mineral water and a slice of lime/lemon and bitters :handgestures-thumbupleft: other than that it cant be masked

[MickC]

Mouth feel to me is how thick or thin a spirit feels in your mouth.
One end of the scale are the spirits that you can almost chew and the other end ones that are thin like water.


I could be very wrong as I often am :)) or so the missus tells me

[WTDist]

Mouth feel to me is how thick or thin a spirit feels in your mouth.
One end of the scale are the spirits that you can almost chew and the other end ones that are thin like water.


I could be very wrong as I often am :)) or so the missus tells me

I had a triple distilled turbo one once with harsh cuts that i filtered and it was like water. Would you class that as a good mouth feel?

[MickC]

I'd say what is "good " is subjective. I like a vodka that feels a bit thicker some others may like a thinner vodka.

[Teddysad]

I believe it comes down to the original wash and base nutrient.

I feel a TPW is a very bland neutral with a slight sweet hint.

I use bran as my base and it adds a certain character mouth feel even after running through my fractionating column (after stripping) to make a vodka.

SOH is a gin fancier and after a long time of making her gins with TPW a switch to the bran base got an immediate thumbs up.

However it would be a grey old world if we all thought the same!

However that Vodka essence totally waste of money!

[dogbreath vodka]

Most of my vodka/neutral washes were in the vicinity of 12%.

Recently did a UJSSM wash at 6% trying to get flavour out of corn.
No flavour to speak of.
BUT
As a neutral it is excellent.
The yeast isn't stressed, so far fewer off flavours.

Some of the first neutral off the still was so good I only ran it through once.
Normally I'd put it all through a second time to clean it up more.... wasn't needed.
This is through a 3 plate bubbler and thumper.

Took the distillate down to 10% and still only had a small amount of smell/flavour to it.
Most of the smell was gone in an hour or so.
It produced a lot of low wines... IE product you need to run again.
But even that was with little smell or taste.

So lower ABV will give you a cleaner product that is easier to clean up.

Will be doing more low ABV washes from now on when doing neutrals. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Woodsy71]

IF you still can taste flavours you don't want. . . . wait 12 months.
Time is your friend -
Over time a lot of the slightly off flavours will disappear.
Was drinking a 12 month old neutral (vodka :roll: ) last night.
Could just taste . . . . something. It wasn't off it was just a taste.
With a dash of bitters all I could taste was the bitters. :D :handgestures-thumbupleft:

DBV

:text-+1: Time makes a big difference.

I hear the big boys give their product a minimum of 5 weeks rest.

Also agree on the point of mixers. If your not drinking your product neat, you won't taste the odd minor glitch. As long as you have followed the basic rules, just kick back comfortable in the knowledge you have a clean, well cut, glass of hearts in your hand :smile:

[Brendan]

I would say you use the term Vodka when wanting a great quality 'neutral' for drinking straight (shots). If it's getting mixed, just any 40% neutral will usually do.

To make a decent vodka, you can.play around with the base ingredients which will usually leave the slightest background hint of flavour. Especially in a wheat or barley vodka, you can usually detect it when drinking straight (and chilled). A thicker linger on the tongue usually comes from grain based vodkas, which is referred to as the mouthfeel.

It's all subjective as to what you enjoy :handgestures-thumbupleft: And like the others said, if you're actually going for vodka and serving it straight...let it age like you would a rum or whiskey. It gets better, smoothes/balances etc.

[WalterWhite]

Whilst my first ever brew (TPW) is fermenting my mind is busy thinking about the stilling process and end result.
I'm looking to make a decent neutral and keen to learn about cuts etc..
I'm starting to worry that i don't even know what ill be aiming for!
Anyone in the Adelaide area willing to give me a shout and maybe even lend me a bottle of decent neutral for me to use as a comparison?