Aussiedistiller, Home Distilling, Moonshine, Home Brew

I think this thread highlights the need to read, comprehend then understand what is truly needed when running a machine with the need of a 15 amp power supply... tongue in cheek some have said file down the earth pin, folks with the knowledge try to state their case and get frustrated with our caveman ways of the typical aussie bloke...no offence intended Cavey.

I have found a lot of people have problems communicating on the net with written text as...you simply can not see the other person facial expressions to gauge the intent of the statement my advice for what it's worth is do not fire up...just keep talking until one of you see the point the other other has put forward, or agree to dis agree.

Electricity is invisible and demands respect, christ I know as I have nearly been killed when picking an extension cable when it was live that my neighbours mut had chewed through and boy did it shake my bones, I jumped into the air believe it or not, and let go and felt quite ill for a couple of hours after.

To me, having no formal training for electrical work, I see doing your own work in this field like sticking your head into the fire to see how hot it is and expecting not to get your eyebrows burnt or worse.

My advice is pay an electrician as your life is worth more than a couple of hundred dollars.imo...

J

ps, good thread !

Just file the earth down not the right thing to do but it's an easy fix may throw your safety switch now and then but no biggy

CyBaThUg wrote:Just file the earth down not the right thing to do but it's an easy fix may throw your safety switch now and then but no biggy

No biggy, until you have to try & claim insurance :angry-banghead:

Peopletat work file them down, holy fuck the safety people hit the roof haha

Please do not file the earth it's worse than just replacing the plug with a 10A one

CyBaThUg wrote:Just file the earth down not the right thing to do but it's an easy fix may throw your safety switch now and then but no biggy

If your lucky, a 10A outlet is not rated to carry 15A and could melt and start a fire... Also a 10A circuit is usually protected by a 16A circuit breaker, meaning it won't trip if there is nothing else running on the circuit and your still is drawing 15A... It's not worth the risk... :handgestures-thumbupleft:

punchy21 wrote:

CyBaThUg wrote:Just file the earth down not the right thing to do but it's an easy fix may throw your safety switch now and then but no biggy

If your lucky, a 10A outlet is not rated to carry 15A and could melt and start a fire... Also a 10A circuit is usually protected by a 16A circuit breaker, meaning it won't trip if there is nothing else running on the circuit and your still is drawing 15A... It's not worth the risk... :handgestures-thumbupleft:

actually in qld a 20A cb is usually used in newer installations for power if you have fuses u'd be lucky to actually have 10 amp wire in there

My solution to the 15A problem is to replace the 10A power point on the wall in the garage with a 20A (Clipsal 2015/20) power point :o then change the male plug on the 15A supply lead to my voltage controller & 3600W element, with a 20A three pin plug :D ( Clipsal 425HD) to fit the power point.The 20A power point feed comes from the switchboard through a 20A breaker & An earth leakage thingy,so I'm assuming the cable from the switchboard is rated for at least 20A & as I'm only drawing 15A max there shouldn't be a problem. ;-) I chose to go 20A to give me a bit of a safety margin.Would anybody care to comment on this arrangement?

bushbrew wrote:My solution to the 15A problem is to replace the 10A power point on the wall in the garage with a 20A (Clipsal 2015/20) power point :o then change the male plug on the 15A supply lead to my voltage controller & 3600W element, with a 20A three pin plug :D ( Clipsal 425HD) to fit the power point.The 20A power point feed comes from the switchboard through a 20A breaker & An earth leakage thingy,so I'm assuming the cable from the switchboard is rated for at least 20A & as I'm only drawing 15A max there shouldn't be a problem. ;-) I chose to go 20A to give me a bit of a safety margin.Would anybody care to comment on this arrangement?

is there anything else on the circuit or was it a10amp gpo by itself if there is other stuff on the circuit change it back to a 10 amp and get a dedicated 20a circuit put in if you have the gear depending how far from the board it is it would only be about $250-300
if its back to back with the swb probally $160

Hi 8-ball,thanks for the reply,no it's not a stand alone GPO but I know what else is on that circuit so wouldn't be using anything else while running it.My element is a 3600W & it's basically 2 separate elements in the one housing,so it's wired so I can switch one off once I'm up to temp & according to my voltage controller,I'm then only drawing 6A at 119v for the duration of the run,so I'm only drawing 15A for about 45min,,so what do you reckon.
Cheers
BB.

bushbrew wrote:Hi 8-ball,thanks for the reply,no it's not a stand alone GPO but I know what else is on that circuit so wouldn't be using anything else while running it.My element is a 3600W & it's basically 2 separate elements in the one housing,so it's wired so I can switch one off once I'm up to temp & according to my voltage controller,I'm then only drawing 6A at 119v for the duration of the run,so I'm only drawing 15A for about 45min,,so what do you reckon.
Cheers
BB.

it not to bad what else is on the circiut if theres a fridge or freezer or anything with a motor or compressor on it get a dedicated circuit put in

Nah,only motor is on the roller door & that draws stuff all, the heaviest load would be a TV.Anyhow thanks for your help,I might give it trial run & keep a close eye on it.
Cheers
BB.

If you only need 15 A why put in a 20A outlet and have to change the plugs on anything? Just put in a 15 A outlet...and I think 10 and 15A plugs may fit a 20A outlet...so if you go for the 20A you may not have to change plugs anyway...(10A wil definately fit a 15A...but I'm not sure on the 20A) I'm still a registered sparky..

FYI Australian houses are all wired in a minimum of 2.5mm cable for the power circuits,( if they havent been done by the local butcher...) which can be rated to 20A depending on the installation method and any surrounding insulation, that may decrease its ability to handle 20A without excessive heat build up and therefore be protected by a breaker or fuse smaller than 20A... Technically unless you increase the size of the cable 1 15 or 20A outlet is all thats allowed on the circuit... good luck.

The 20A plug has larger pins,so I figured that's got to be a good thing for spreading the load,more metal can't be a bad thing.I'm only drawing a max of 15A for a short time & I don't like running stuff at Max so the 20A gives me a bit of a safety margin.

The big problem not picked up so far is that it does seem fine to go into the shed and replace the standard 10A powerpoint with a 15A or 20A one if you have a 20A C/B at the switchboard (standard nowadays for a 2.5mm power circuit) BUT .........

Your power most likely does not go straight to that 15 or 20A powerpoint. I would guess that it goes via other powerpoints and the "shed" one is at the end of the circuit. Problem is that if you load that end one up to almost 20A, you may think it is fine as you have a 20A C/B and you have been a good boy/girl and fitted a big powerpoint at the end, however, all the powerpoints that it loops through tot he end of that circuit are all rated at 10A and the screws holding the wire together behind the powerpoint are rated at 10A max. Any more than the 10A is going to over-rate the powerpoints connections in the back and possibly heat up/melt the powerpoint from the back where you may not see it until the plastic at the front finally melts.

Problems caused by this - possible connection breakdown, so your neutral or earth could be compromised, burn out and open circuit. Don't sound that bad?? If the earth breaks off the powerpoint, then there is no earth return for your still equipment which could render the RCD's useless for earth tripping. If the neutral breaks off, the only return will be through the earth, tripping an RCD if fitted, or creating a live scenario at your still area. If the active breaks off, you may/may not have broken active wires behind a wall somewhere as well as fire issues with all the prior scenarios.

Thermal runoff can cause multiple connections to fail, the faulty bit may not be the bit that will break if you get what I am trying to say.

If a fire was to result, the inspection by the firies and local supply industry will find the cause pretty easily and insurance would be rendered useless in that situation. :scared-eek:

There is only one thing to do if you need more than the standard amount of power. Get an electrician to do it for you properly. Most likely wont be cheap, but if a circuit needs upgrading because of your hobby, it is best to get it done for absolute peace of mind. That may entail a dedicated 20A, 25A, 32A circuit into the shed for the hobby, but once it is done, it's done and safe. Maybe you might be able to convince the sparky for a slight discount with some of your brew : :D

A 10 A circuit will happily supply 15, 20, 100A... its just a matter of how long for.

A dedicated 15A circuit will do so all day, @ full load. Theoreticially, fuse type depending, 10A could also blast 50A safe... for seconds. If you look at data sheets for heavy cables, they don't give 'Amp' ratings, but amperes vs temp rise, and safe temp rise vs ambient graphs, n let the engineers work out if it'll work safely.

In a nutshell, filing down a 15a plug to run ur stove, with a fridge, freezer n kettle off a 10 a cct, or ur plasma, hifi etc, n file down to fit an A/C, well, that's just stupid.

But if uve a dedicated 10 A feed to ur shed, n ur only running short beads with ur welder, maybe some lights n a radio, bust out ur file. Just don't run ur 2400w (10 a @240v) still at the same time ;-)

Play smart, don't get sloppy. Be happy (read, don't burn your house down). But youse blokes 'boil gasoline', you know the drill

Edit:
If your running a 3600w element, ur already drawing 15a (3600/240=15a). N that's not uncommon

arjovenzia wrote:A 10 A circuit will happily supply 15, 20, 100A... its just a matter of how long for.

A dedicated 15A circuit will do so all day, @ full load. Theoreticially, fuse type depending, 10A could also blast 50A safe... for seconds. If you look at data sheets for heavy cables, they don't give 'Amp' ratings, but amperes vs temp rise, and safe temp rise vs ambient graphs, n let the engineers work out if it'll work safely.

In a nutshell, filing down a 15a plug to run ur stove, with a fridge, freezer n kettle off a 10 a cct, or ur plasma, hifi etc, n file down to fit an A/C, well, that's just stupid.

But if uve a dedicated 10 A feed to ur shed, n ur only running short beads with ur welder, maybe some lights n a radio, bust out ur file. Just don't run ur 2400w (10 a @240v) still at the same time ;-)

Play smart, don't get sloppy. Be happy (read, don't burn your house down). But youse blokes 'boil gasoline', you know the drill

Edit:
If your running a 3600w element, ur already drawing 15a (3600/240=15a). N that's not uncommon

well actually no, circuits and switch gear and expecialy plugs in aus are not rated to run at full load for hours if you are running 15amp with a 15amp plug and socket its not designed to be running for hours on end its designed for time on time off so you should go to a 20 amp because it will handle it,

filing down a plugs earth is stupid and dangerous if anything replace the plug with a 10 amp one ( not recommended anyway ) you can buy them at bunnings, mitre 10, ect they have instructions with them. Most of the plugs i have seen that have been filed or hit with a grinder are left rough and incorrect sized or removed completely

I thought it was pretty simple, if it's electrical and you're only guessing..... dont fuck with it!!

10 amp is 10 amp etc etc :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

8-ball wrote:well actually no, circuits and switch gear and expecialy plugs in aus are not rated to run at full load for hours if you are running 15amp with a 15amp plug and socket its not designed to be running for hours on end its designed for time on time off so you should go to a 20 amp because it will handle it,

What? where did you pull that one from mate? thats why its given the rating. thats what its designed to handle. a 15A cct will handle 15A @25 degrees forever. however, for saftey, you derate the fuse, so its the weakest link. a 15A wire, socket and fuse is not a good idea, as in a fault scenario, any one of those could fail. if its wire or socket, you have a fire. hence why the standard Australian mains circut is a nominal '10A', but has a socket rated to 15A (remember the conductors on a plug are the same, its just a keyed earth to differentiate), and usually 20A (2.5mm) wire.

I dont see how replacing the plug is any safer than paring down the earth... just lopping it off is absolutely retarded.

MacStills point is probably the most valid. this shit will kill you quite merrily, and can easily burn ur house/shed down. If your only guessing, DONT. if you have your facts (how your particular fusing and distribution works), you've done your maths, and you have the technical skills (any fool can screw in some wires, but doing it properly isnt so obvious to some people), sure, go for it. its your stuff your risking.

but if your concerned on any point, just dont. "some bloke on the forum said It'll be ok" will never be a valid excuse.

play safe ya'll

arjovenzia wrote:What? where did you pull that one from mate? thats why its given the rating. thats what its designed to handle. a 15A cct will handle 15A @25 degrees forever. however, for saftey, you derate the fuse, so its the weakest link. a 15A wire, socket and fuse is not a good idea, as in a fault scenario, any one of those could fail. if its wire or socket, you have a fire. hence why the standard Australian mains circut is a nominal '10A', but has a socket rated to 15A (remember the conductors on a plug are the same, its just a keyed earth to differentiate), and usually 20A (2.5mm) wire.

I dont see how replacing the plug is any safer than paring down the earth... just lopping it off is absolutely retarded.

firstly the aust standards for plugs and sockets is where i got that from the cabling is fine its the plug and socket thats where the problem lies

mate not to get nasty ive done some work with clipsal and they where showing the effects on the internals of a gpo with a nicely trimmed smoothed out earth pin thats the wrong size after 3 hrs of continuous load at 10.5 amps ie low end of the grid 230v and it ended up melting the socket and welding the earth pin inside the socket