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Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:05 amby R-sole
I would not use the 2200 watt brewshop elements complete with cord element for a million bucks (all the brew shop weldless ones in 2200 watt seem to be the same ones).
One day someone will be killed or seriously injured using on of these elements This is a 14 page thread from aussie homebrewer where people are continually haveing these expolde in a shower of sparks or burn out in a pool of melting plastic. A lot seem to get them replaced under warranty and then wait for it to happen again. Some seem to try jury rigging the cords in an attempt to halt or slow the melting process.
There are people there on their third replacement. I don't understand the thinking personally.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... opic=63974In the interests of full disclosure I am a competitior and do stock better elements although more expensive. You can also go to your closest agent of Stokes australia (google it) and get elements the same as i supply for a couple bucks more but save the freight, if you can talk them into trade prices.
My concern here is for safety and the Keg King ekements are the REASON why i sought to offer an alternative. Buy from my competitors by all means, but please stay away from these 2200 watt weldless elements from any source.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:18 amby stilly_bugger
The problemsI've read
that Aussie Homebrewer thread. You have to sort the wheat from the chaff in its 14 pages. Many contributors use the thread as a place to piss and moan about Mr Keg King.
This is a better thread on the actual danger posed by these elements.
Nevertheless, here is a summary of the problems that people have raised in the first thread.
- The inner stainless shoulder wasn't sealed on one unit
- The elements can be incorrectly treated during manufacturing, leading to surface rust.
- The wiring isn't durable: the cable and white plastic insulating cover can pull out of the back of these elements
- Mysterious death of the element (not the operator)
- Kee at Keg King is an arse when it comes to warrantee and replacement
- The cord gets hot and warps.
Three of these problems pose a risk to the operator: 1, 3 & 6. 1 doesn't seem to be a common problem. But there are many instances of 3, wiring pulling out, & 6, wiring overheating.
I'm no electrical engineer, but this seems to be due to two major design faults: the cable that connects into the back of the element is not reinforced; and, the wiring isn't thick enough to handle the electrical load.
The alternative5Star wrote:I ... do stock better elements although more expensive. You can also go to your closest agent of Stokes australia...
I always thought that the alternatives to the Keg King elements were welding a keg to take a thread or wiring up my own element. I'd definitely buy your weldless element over the Keg King ones based on your contribution to the home distiller community forums alone. Can you post some more info on the elements here or in the commercial section?
:handgestures-thumbupleft:
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:35 pmby R-sole
My elements are not weldless. Neither are the stokes ones. They
are however an alternative, not a replacement.
I don't know about wheat from chaff, there are quite a few posts similar to this one..
Hi all
I posted my fault on brew Adelaide but forgot to post here,Boneski replied and mentioned the ongoing problems with these element's.I have just finished re-reading this thread, there has been alot added since i first read of Kev's complaint's some time ago. For some reason i was under the impression that the problems had been fixed and that my element would not be affected.Maybe i should stop skimming threads or learn to read.
Well mine blew last weekend.I was just getting ready to brew and had flicked the switch to heat my water, when about 30 seconds later there was a loud POP and then a small shower of sparks that only stopped when i switched the power off.
No dramas apart from the fact that one of my Daughters follows me everywhere!!
Luckily she was on the other side of the pot when the cord gave up the ghost, if she had of been between myself and the pot she would have worn a face full of fuck knows what. When the element popped it was loud enough to scare the shite out of the pair of us! I she hadn't of been there i would of had my running shoe's on and lashed it.Luckily only my pride was hurt and now my daughter knows im a chicken shit.
I bought my element from craftbrewer and hold them responsible. They have my e-mail and they should have used it to tell me about these problems. If i hadn't been told in this thread that they where KK products i wouldnt be any the wiser.Maybe thats wrong and some people may argue that point but at some stage you should take care of your customers and just touch base to let everyone know there has been problems.
I note that craftbrewer still stocks these elements. I also note that AHB members are still using them...Dont!! Do yourself a favour and take a weekend of brewing and spend that time looking into a safer option.Let's keep this thread going and if anyone finds a better option drop it in here so we can all brew better
All the best and cheers!
There is an actual physical danger being posed by these elements and the design faults that seem to be associated with them. While this relies on anecdotal evidence at this point, there is enough of that evidence to post an alert to warn people about the dangers so they can make an informed choice as to whether they want to risk that in their homes.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:56 pmby stilly_bugger
5Star wrote:There is an actual physical danger being posed by these elements and the design faults that seem to be associated with them. While this relies on anecdotal evidence at this point, there is enough of that evidence to post an alert to warn people about the dangers so they can make an informed choice as to whether they want to risk that in their homes.
True. That's why I tried to summarise what was in the thread. Part of the reason people keep using these elements is because one of the best places you can get info on how bad they are is a 14 page thread that contains important posts like the one you've pointed out but also a heap of posts that
are not specifically relevant to the danger posed by these elements, i.e. the pissing and moaning about Keg King's customer service. By summarising the thread and pointing people to a short thread that points out specific problems with the elements I had hoped to cut through a lot of that.
We should consider taking a handful of the most relevant anecdotes from AHB and a summary of the design flaws in these elements and making a locked sticky thread to warn people.
And it's a bloody shame that you don't have weldless elements. A good alternative weldless element would sell like hotcakes. But as long as the only alternative for the average punter is welding a ferrule into their keg (minimum $80 at a welding shop alone), buying an element guard and adapter and then wiring the element up themselves (technically illegal, isn't it?), Keg King will always have a market for their dodgy weldless solution.
Are there any safe weldless elements out there? I used to use a 2000W circular copper weldless element that came out of a 5lt HBS boiler. They're about $50 retail. You can't get them into the neck of a keg but at the time I was running a keg with a hole cut in the top, so I could use it. I never had any trouble with it and haven't read any complaints about them.
:handgestures-thumbupleft:
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:03 pmby MacStill
I have 2 keg king elements in my boiler that have been working well, I asked a keg king agent TWOC (the worlds oldest cunt) brew supplies about the problem elements and he said the new ones are now working fine, also stated that most if not all the faulty ones had been replaced.
The elements them selves are good, just the wiring lets them down.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:08 pmby Brigand
Have 2 keg king ones in my boiler, 1 on my kettle for beer making and 1 on my HLT
Had the one in my kettle blow up about a month ago - scared the crap out of me :angry-extinguishflame:
Did have a one arrive DOA too
So 2 elements to fail out of 6 elements is pretty woeful
It'd be awesome if a weldless alternative existed
Cheers
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:23 pmby R-sole
I have never advised that people wire them up themselves. Wherever you see an ad for my elements you will see me state that they should be wired by a licensed electrician. If you find a place where i haven't advised that please let me know and i will correct it.
Seems funny you are claiming something is illegal on a distillation site :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
Welding a socket is NOT a minimum of $80. Like all things it depends who you know, depends on your negotiation skills, how much prpe work you are prepared to do to make it simple for the tradie and depends on what skills you have yourself.
There are plenty of people i have sent boilers to that have not been charged $80 for welding (and more than a simple socket). You do not have to buy the www.5stardistilling.com.au element adaptor. You can have your electrician wire it up however he see's fit.
Once again. I am not going to continue to argue such simple points with you. You are entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong you are about most of the points you are making. :teasing-neener:
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:08 amby stilly_bugger
Again, apologies.
I've never seen you advise people to wire elements themselves. I was just thinking of the steps I'd have to run through if I bought one of these elements from Stokes.
A while back I rang a few welding workshops where I live and nobody would touch a TIG job, no matter how small, for under $80. I've got mates who would do it, and I could do a half-arsed job of it myself, but I thought I'd look into what it costs to get this done professionally. (The same goes with the price I mentioned about the cost for a sparky to put in a 15amp point
over yonder. I've got mates who would do it when they get the time :laughing-rolling: but I rang around to see what it would cost to get someone in. $200 was about standard for a signed-off install.)
If I'm wrong on the other things, then good. It means the www.5stardistilling.com.au / Stokes option won't be as expensive as I thought. :handgestures-thumbupleft:
I'm not trying to justify or defend the Keg King elements. I could care less for them. I use them. I've replaced shit ones, but I take them for what they are -- a cheapskate option for heating wash. I just make sure that I keep an eye on their cord temp and condition. But just because the Keg King weldless elements are shit doesn't mean that all weldless elements are shit. There are others out there. Like
these 900W elements
or
these 1380W elements
or
these 2000W elements
Anyway, I'm with you on this. I don't know how I failed so miserably to get that across. :sad:
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:14 amby R-sole
All good mate, and i didn't think i implied that all the weldless elements are no good. I was pretty specific about listing as the 'brewshop 2200 watt' ones. I was trying to avoid being more defined in this direct post as i didn't want to name the distributing business in a thread i expect will not fade away for some time.
Anyway. Buyer beware.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:47 pmby stinkypete
was running the same element yesterday whilst stripping some neutral and without warning bang , i nearly sh&t myself , phoned the guy i bought it off and he assured me kegking would send me the new improved model free of charge , any one know if the new ones are any safer ?
cheers
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:49 pmby MacStill
My new improved one shit itself last weekend :angry-banghead:
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:54 pmby stinkypete
wow that sucks cant be much of an improvement then , im trying out the gas alternative now with my potstill so will be interesting , could be waiting a while for the new improved one anyway by the sounds
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:56 pmby Multipleg
I had a Keg King element blow out on me about a month ago. Went with a great shoot of sparks and a puff of smoke. I didn't think to search if it was a common failure and just put it down to a random failure. Picked up a replacement (same element) at the local homebrew shop and they said if I brought in the old one they'd ask Keg King to issue a refund.
It can be a bit of a fiddle getting it watertight and I don't like that it would be so easy to knock and break the seal. I'd like to move to a welded option. I'm not an electrician and I'm not a welder. What are the easy replacement solutions?
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:42 amby R-sole
The easy way is to get a welder or get a sparkie that will do a little job for a bottle of grog or a carton of beer.
Weld either a 1" bsp stainless socket, or for a more elegant solution a 2" ferrule to your boiler.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:32 amby unsub
Well mine just shit itself. Used it about 10 times and this morning it had been on for about 10 minutes and started smoking badly and stinking like that horrible burnt plastic smell so I pulled the power and it tripped the circuit.
Pulled it out of the keg, pulled it apart and it had shorted inside the connector and burnt the crap out of it.
Ordering a 2400 watt one now and an element guard kit.
Do not buy these things they are an accident waiting to happen, it's not a matter of if but when. Spend the extra bucks on getting a proper element fitted even if it's a pain in the arse to get it welded just do it for safety's sake.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:41 amby Andy
quality keg king element- only used it about 8 or so times. IM NO ELECTRICIAN- but i don't think that is a good thing :laughing-rolling:
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:14 pmby unsub
Fark. Is that an old one or the "new improved" model? I had a new model sitting around from a warranty replacement so I threw it in to see how it ran and I got about 4 uses out of it before not only the lead but also the plastic crap it is encased in started melting and bulging, so much for new and improved. I also noticed that the white plastic housing with the resin in it that seals it all up had snapped right at the thread so it wasn't noticed when I installed it initially so the wires were unsupported and taking the weight of the cable and plastic cap thing.
One of the worst things I found with the new one apart from the potentially lethal wiring was when I took it out it was all pitted and starting to get surface rust on it! FFS can these dickheads either make them properly or just stop producing and selling them all together?
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:52 pmby crow
these guys selling these must be nuts, just a matter of time til someone is killed quite surprised no one has been killed yet by them, well that we know of I suppose
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:46 pmby djfrestyla
I had one short out on me, just as i lowered the copper column onto it, all i can remember was a bang.
30 seconds later i woke up the other side of the room, smoke everyware, with the titanium plate in my arm getting hotter and hotter, i ran bellowing out to the tap.
It took me about a week to get over it, these Keg King elements are just damn right dangerous.
Re: Beware Brewshop Weldless Elements
Posted:
Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:37 pmby Cane Toad
Someone should email ACA and get them on the job,they'd go and buy 50 of em and test em :handgestures-thumbupleft: and when they turned out to be shit they'd hound em to death :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: They take a very dim view on shit like this :handgestures-thumbupleft: