Electric heater Vs Gas Heater?

[Grandvewe]

Hi Guys,
Im very new to distilling and dont own one at the moment but Iam doing the required research now.
Im looking at getting a distiller that will require a separate heating element under it. Most likley a pot still for whiskey and rum, or maybe a Reflux.
Im planning to have a still with about a 25L - 35L capacity.

My question is what is the safest and most effective heating element for your distiller?
General cooking rules say gas is the best for the fastest and most consistent heat. This would make me think Gas would perform best.
The danger I assume with a gas heater is that it is an open flame that could potentially create a dangerous fire if your still happens to have a leak.

This lead me to think iam best to buy a portable electric heater but Im not sure if it would get hot enough or if it would take too long to heat 25-35 litres of wash.

Obviously you should check your still for any leaks every time you use it but I thought if there are good portable electric heaters out there then it would be safer to go with this option?

So im asking for everyones opinions on this and any recommendations/links.

Thanks in advance (hope this is not a repeat question)

[blond.chap]

Hi Mate and welcome,

Responses to your questions:

Hi Guys,
Im very new to distilling and dont own one at the moment but Iam doing the required research now.
Im looking at getting a distiller Just called a Still that will require a separate heating element under it. Most likley a pot still for whiskey and rum, or maybe a Reflux.
Im planning to have a still with about a 25L - 35L capacity.

My question is what is the safest and most effective heating element for your distiller?
Electric is easily the safer option provided you get it wired by a professional. As far as most effective that's up for debate, but there's nothing wrong with the way electric runs
General cooking rules say gas is the best for the fastest and most consistent heat. This would make me think Gas would perform best.
I would have guessed that electric would be more consistent. As far as speed is concerned, it depends on what size element you have. But it's more important that you have the right level of heat (too much will ruin your product)

The danger I assume with a gas heater is that it is an open flame that could potentially create a dangerous fire if your still happens to have a leak.
Yep, that is a risk

This lead me to think iam best to buy a portable electric heater but Im not sure if it would get hot enough or if it would take too long to heat 25-35 litres of wash.
You can buy boilers from the brew shop (like thishttp://puredistilling.com/product/beer-me-30l-boiler/), it's about $300 for a 2kW system. Stay away from the "Keg King" elements, as there have been multiple cases of these melting/leaking/setting fire

Obviously you should check your still for any leaks every time you use it but I thought if there are good portable electric heaters out there then it would be safer to go with this option?

So im asking for everyones opinions on this and any recommendations/links.

Thanks in advance (hope this is not a repeat question)

I've got an electric 50L keg boiler, I was looking at gas but was too worried about spills. You can run gas safely (plenty of people here do) but you probably need to be even more vigilant than usual.

The best advise I can give is to spend a month or 2 reading up (especially on safety) before you buy anything.
The 2nd best bit of advise I can give is to read the posts here: http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewforum.php?f=57

[googe]

From what people say on here there heating 45l in 45 mins, thats about the same as my gas setup with a big!! Reg. I'd go electric mate, less stuffing around with getting bottles filled blah blah blah. I would think that electric would not be as sensitive as gas, but would be clutching at straws?. Good luck

[Grandvewe]

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to help with my questions.

Blonde.chap thanks for the links, I have seen those boilers and stills before. The one still im looking at (Link below)does not include a heater so thats why im looking for one that is separate.
http://www.milehidistilling.com/hybrid-8-gallon-milk-can-4-in-1-distiller-with-npt-fittings/

So im guessing something as simple as the portable induction heater like the one on this link below would work fine?
Is there a certain wattage I need to get to ensure it will heat 35L?


http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1800W-Highlander-Portable-Induction-Plate-Cooker-with-100-Copper-Coil-/121098535305?pt=AU_Cooktops&hash=item1c32090189&_uhb=1

Thanks again

[MacStill]

reckon you should get milehi to weld a couple of ferrules on the boiler for internal elements, those hot plates suck arse :handgestures-thumbdown:

[EziTasting]

So has anyone actually done a comparison between the 2 (gas & electricity)?
Looking at the production ease as ell as the cost?

Cheers
EZ

[hoochlover]

Hopefully this sums it up reasonably well.

Internal electric elements can be complicated to install even if you already have the holes for it. Very efficient if you forget how the electricity got to you because if you factor in generation losses at the power station gas is always more efficient.

All-in-one electric boiler is very simple to use, sometimes lacks a way to control the power and you're limited to whatever size it is. Low to Average efficiency

Electric Heating stoves are probably second in ease of use behind an all in one boiler. Usually has heat controls built in, you can usually buy more to heat faster depending upon boiler size. Can choose the boiler size you want for it, easy to obtain pots that can be modded to use on it. Low to Average efficiency.

Gas is probably the most difficult to setup due to its dangers. But it would be cheaper in many (if not most) instances especially if you're on the grid gas. If a zombie apocalypse happens its also easy to use your existing setup with wood or biogas instead and ensure you don't have to be sober. Can be dangerous but is also the most manly. Average to high efficiency.

[EziTasting]

Haha, good effort, Hooch.

I went back and used the sites search engine and found a number of other posts on this topic!
In short, they all seem to agree that electricity is safer although more complicated and more expensive to set up.

What surprised me, tho, is that it was the general consensus that it is cheaper to run on electricity...

Gas, open flame & flamable liquid and vapours (fumes/gases)...

Thank you for your input, appreciate it!

[res]

If a zombie apocalypse happens its also easy to use your existing setup with wood or biogas instead and ensure you don't have to be sober.

:text-+1: ;-)

[hoochlover]

Haha, good effort, Hooch.

I went back and used the sites search engine and found a number of other posts on this topic!
In short, they all seem to agree that electricity is safer although more complicated and more expensive to set up.

More complicated to setup? Can't imagine any gas situation being easier than an all in one electric boiler. Even stove top gas in your kitchen would be more annoying than that. Unless you mean the internal electric elements in which case I agree in some instances. A lot depends on what you have to work with, your environment, etc

What surprised me, tho, is that it was the general consensus that it is cheaper to run on electricity...

I guess it depends on your electricity cost and gas cost. Propane can be expensive when you buy in small batches. I haven't actually looked at gas prices in quite a while but when I was in WA it was much cheaper per kwh of heating compared to electricity. Maybe that's not the case in other areas or even WA now. Where I am everything is expensive and gas lines are rare. You can't compare reverse cycle electricity heating to gas heating for distilling because the electric elements are the 1:1 type of electric heating. A quick look suggests it's likely 2-3 times cheaper than electricity in Victoria if you're on the grid.

Gas, open flame & flamable liquid and vapours (fumes/gases)...

It's what puts hair on your chest! Or burns them off. Either way if you are safe and experienced I don't think it would be that dangerous, it's always going to be more dangerous than electricity though. One spurge from the top and you may have a fire, pot stills may be better. I've seen some funny/dangerous pics of guys with crazy setups. Alcohol outlets 30cm from flames in a garage, etc. The downside to it for me personally is the fact you have to be in a well ventilated area and I like distilling inside. That way no one knows what I'm doing except the neighbours that I'm venting the lovely meaty vegemite gas to after finishing a batch.

[EziTasting]

More complicated to setup? Can't imagine any gas situation being easier than an all in one electric boiler. Even stove top gas in your kitchen would be more annoying than that. Unless you mean the internal electric elements in which case I agree in some instances. A lot depends on what you have to work with, your environment, etc

By this I meant needing a Sparky to wire the electrodes up, and the potential need for a control box, etc.

I guess I can see the advantages (those you've mentioned as well as the safety aspect) that makes electricity preferable! Come summer time, lol, all I'd have to do is bring the equipment outside (48-50 degrees is common in my area) and let the sun get it started! :laughing-rolling: no cost @ all...

As for an All-in-one, I'm guessing you're referring to a Turbo500 or the like, has never been of interest to me. Like most (?every?) Newbie I have investigated 'How to brew' my own and, as I'm interested in making Sipping Whisky, how to proceed to the desired end product. So, what grain, how to use/ prepare it, how to extract the 'goodies' and how to distill it.
I do quite a bit of reading before I pose questions - because I don't always get it, nor get it right!

I am, I believe, near the end of the beginning of my learning, stilling and brewing are step 3 & 4 final before I actually get to produce anything. Step 2: the 'Set-up' is where I am now, trying to find out which way to go...

[TheMechwarrior]

Keep in mind that for someone like Grandvewe who's a commercial distiller, a steam boiler is also a very real option. The boiler can be run on gas a good safe distance from the still.

Here's a cost comparison from TasGas:

[hoochlover]

Keep in mind that for someone like Grandvewe who's a commercial distiller, a steam boiler is also a very real option. The boiler can be run on gas a good safe distance from the still.

Here's a cost comparison from TasGas:

Yep good point. If you're at the commercial level worrying about every cent is smart business. Do any hobby distillers use steam that you know of? Some people suggest there could be some taste difference using steam because you have better control of the temperature hitting the wash than vs electric. But I also think if you had a jacketed pot design, or maybe even a bigger heating base on your pot it shouldn't be a worry, if it is at all. I know some internal elements have been known to scorch things, but I'm not sure how much of a problem it is for the external heat to the pot designs.

Not having seen the difference up close during a boil it's difficult to know. I do know that even raising the temp of a 5% wash to 50C on a normal pot does have an awful meaty smell. Clarification is extremely important for distilling. Even with the best reflux design some of that meaty goodness is getting concentrated into something up the top. And even if you distil it 3 times it seems like getting rid of the problem in the first place (yeast removal from the wash) is the smartest course to take.

[Whiskyaugogo]

We have went with an electric steam generator running 2 x 2000 & 1 x 1000 Litre Boilers. Electricity in the ACT is around the $0.16 per Kw. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

While I am fan of Gas (and it's cheap) we had to weigh up the safety options for an all grain distillery and the extra plumbing requirements to move it outside. Even though we are installing extraction fans, the fumes from an active distillation, maturing barrels and grain were deemed to unsafe for our Distillery. This was purely our own decision for safety and risk. :-B

[Undertaker]

Electricity in the ACT is around the $0.16 per Kw.

Damm politicians and public servants looking after themselves first!!!

Cheers Phil