Rye whiskey

[bt1]

Geez, two recipes in less than 1 week wtf is happening?…

Reckon I’ve done my apprenticeship with 200+ runs, 50+ experiments, 20+ timbers and 8 still builds

So clearing out the cupboard before I go AG full time.. got 100+ Lt of UJSM’s sugar/grain heads in storage so reckon have time and due a break from the weekly routine…

So why Rye … It tastes bloody magic and is a genuinely a soft whiskey… Go to your local and have a Jim Beam Yellow label and see what you think.

It’s not the brew to do if your short on time, or want a drinkable drop next week. Rye takes time to turn and being a high protein grain needs some love.
As a adjunct to a sugarhead - grain/sugar wash it’s a waste of time imho.. It’s either a cooked malted version or don’t bother. The flavour gain for a plain raw rye in a sugar head is minimal at best and can be straight up bloody disappointing.

So if your still reading here we go…

Background

Rye like wheat is a high protein grain. If your using a small boiler or fill to the brink then a protein rest during conversion is the go. Low filler cautious distillers like 40 - 42lt in a 50lt keg would never see the issue but being a confirmed tight arse I like max bang for my buck/effort and fill to the near brim.

Malted rye is the go. Simple crushed or ground raw rye has jack all flavour and I’ve read posts by kiwi and others to read the disappointment after so much effort.
Malted Rye has the diastatic power(call it ability to convert starch to usable sugars) of recycled earth friendly used toilet paper. It’s lucky to convert itself let alone another grain.

Straight up American and Canadian brewers in general aim for the max rye content of 51% and use corn cos it’s cheap and ageing turns fast and a good malted barley cos it has grunt to convert starch. They are commercially driven and rye even though malted is the lame duck of malted grains….same for us to call it a rye its 51% but after that extra rye adds jack.

The go

60lt fermenter set up

Again fill to 40lt of water early so chlorine has a chance to piss off….night before is good.
Get the 10lt + stock pot ready. Start heating the water, after few mins and still below finger temp throw in 3lt malted rye. Your heading up to the protein rest and will pull the pin on heating at between 45c and 55c, closer to 55c if your good.
Let it sit for like bloody ages, good 2 hours. Proteins break down here. For overfillers of boilers or smaller stills this is a must to avoid a puke.
Add 1lt corn. And 1lt good malted barley and gently heat to 62c. We’ll stop here for a good 45mins while beta enzyme does its magic.

Kk we’re off to the 67 – 71c range for sugar well as much as you can get converts. Good half to 1 hour. As mentioned rye has the diastatic power of wet cabbage so your not going to get heaps of sugars so up to you…pull the pin earlier and add 5 – 8kg of dissolved sugars or as Kravin suggests and sounds and looks bloody tasty LME or DME as you prefer.

I always add a good teaspoon of DAP and Epsom salts cos I loves them yeasts… but it’s ok without it..at these levels in a 60lt ferment there’s no off taste issues in any case.
Into fermenter with dissolved sugars or DME/ LME(trying this right now btw using LME- Coopers x 2 cans)

Sort your heating approx 28c, wrap em up or simply use a lager yeast as we’re getting close to pulling the ping on hot washes. Look it sets like a brick(proteins again) so periodic open and a good stir is highly recommended.

Still it up, a few strips for a pot to justify the spirit or single run through hybrid/plater/detuned reflux.

The rest you know timbers cuts etc. Word of warning a rye will take 2 months to show anything like promise…don’t judge it during this time. Cos it’s a long termer you’ll need to reduce your initial timbering level so it doesn’t get over powered. I age at 65abv and reduce timbers twice.

It’s best drunk with a small amount of crushed ice from the belly button of some naked company and this may require some additional skills, planning or disposable income to achieve.

bt1

[deejay]

this is a very well explained :handgestures-thumbupleft: post thanks bt1

[baldoss]

Terrific writeup bt.. Keen to see how other members get it to perform and what results come out the other side. I love ryes so will eventually give this a go!

[Mfkerg]

Great write up BT, will be giving some of your recipes once I free up a fermenter and have tried the Appalachian moonshine recipe.

Keep em coming.

:-D

[invisigoth]

Malted rye is the go. Simple crushed or ground raw rye has jack all flavour and I’ve read posts by kiwi and others to read the disappointment after so much effort.

guess i'll give trying a rye shucho a miss then. :think:

[Cane Toad]

Not a big fan of rye,but since the AG bug has bit,why the hell not. I'll just add it to the list, :think: I wonder how koji infested rye would go converting Invis?? :laughing-rolling:

[invisigoth]

:think: I wonder how koji infested rye would go converting Invis??

well now see that's the thing. you arn't relying on the enzymes of the grains, but the enzymes of the fungus. if you can get it to grow on rye, you should only need 25% of your rye to kojified.
the question is "can you get koji to grow on rye?" i know it grows on barley, because many bottles of barley shochu specify if the koji has been grown on barley or rice. but bt's point seems to be that unmalted rye has no real flavour to speak of, so i don't know if it is worthwhile trying. barley will be my next victim. :o

[Cane Toad]

Hmmm but really,if the koji is grown on the rye it is sort of malted,otherwise you wouldn't get any starch conversion :think: :think: Interesting times ahead me thinks :-B :-B :-B

[invisigoth]

Hmmm but really,if the koji is grown on the rye it is sort of malted,otherwise you wouldn't get any starch conversion :think: :think:

whilst the koji produces the enzymes for starch conversion, the malting process also changes the flavour. it comes back to flavour. the koji i believe does impart it's own flavour to the mix, but it's different from the flavour of malted grains. when grains start to germinate, there is a range of chemicals that are changed from one from into another ready to go from being a seed to being a plant. both those chemicals and how they are yet again changed depending on the drying process used give the malt it's unique flavour separate from its base seed. :-B

[bt1]

Howdy,

rather impressed with kravin's idea of LME/DME vs. sugars ...

Seriously if this wash delivers 10% of how it smells and tastes I'm a convert...

IMAG0027s.jpg

IMAG0028s.jpg

A Rye followed up
bt1

[invisigoth]

rather impressed with kravin's idea of LME/DME vs. sugars ...

sounds like you are well on your way there! ..... bloke ( :laughing-rolling: )

if it works for beer i'd have thought it would hold true for whisky. back when i was extract brewing the "kits" always say to add 1kg of sugar to it. if you added malt extract instead it was always so much better. :dance:

[emptyglass]

Interesting.
Rye always seems to be an addition to malted barley. Having only got one shot away with ag I'm a know knothing. But all I've read, rye is a flavor component. It's there for its flavor, not for performance?

But around here, I have a hard time finding rye of any sort. The best I can find is rye flour, for breadmaking.
I asked at a local pasture seed supplier, they can supply rye grass, not rye corn. They can supply rye corn seasonally, and now is off season.
If I buy it by the tonne, they can help.

Rye corn is whats needed isn't it?

[baldoss]

If I buy it by the tonne, they can help.

Looks like someone is organising a group buy... :pray:

:laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[bt1]

Howdy EG,

As far as I know rye is a single species. Rye corn after quick web tour would appear to be the same but a specific type growth more for quick winter feed for stock. Regardless if it's harvested it would I guess be the same grain.

pricing:
Weyermann® Rye Malt (Germany)
20,000gm and above - $2.80 per Kg. grain & Grape
This for a pre malted variety may be more to your liking.

As posted I've never really taken to plain raw unmalted rye...it doesn't seem to offer much in terms of flavour. Found the malted to be a lot better.

If you want a 3kg post bag to try malted, pre milled, pm your delivery addr and I'll pop it in the post.

cheers
bt1

[emptyglass]

No worries Bt, will do.

If I buy it by the tonne, they can help.

Looks like someone is organising a group buy... :pray:

:laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

There's always that I spose.
The kids aren't using the pool at the moment, a tonne of rye, a tonne of malt, and a few tonnes of corn.....

[bluess57]

Anyone tried the Rye bread whiskey recipe by Odin over at MD forum?
Found this in the local supermarket and put a wash on, according to the recipe by Odin.
The rye bread smells very nice.

[crow]

Yeah that's not exactly "rye bread". Many yrs since I've seen it made but as I recall it has rye , carraway , mollasses and a dozen other things . This stuff is fucking delish fresh but I can't imagine it as a whiskey and I have a pretty vivid imagination :laughing-rolling:

[cdbrown]

As it has poor diastatic power, why not added the malted barley at the start to help the starch conversion of the rye?

Curious as to why you are holding the rye at around 55C for 2 hours. Normally the max time at this step is 20mins before heating up to the saccharification temp. The lower temp at 62 will help make some short chain sugars (beta amylase) and the warmer for alpha amylase. The lower temps will help produce a lower FG, higher temps will be sweeter and higher FG. But the 62C needs more time.

52C - 20mins
62C - 60mins
70C - 30mins
??

[bt1]

Normally the max time at this step is 20mins

reasoning is included in the post?

I'm no fan of cleaning up pukes
bt1

[bt1]

You know we bang on about all sorts of stuff and sometimes just miss the flamin obvious.

Finally after some 12 plus runs on this recipe reckon I finally got it right this past weekend. No change to process, grains was involved.

The key, a slower bubbler run, ruthless cuts, collected less hearts but premium quality, no hint even of a tails influence what so ever...Just by slowing down... my search is over, finally.

A large sigh,
bt1