got me a new column

[invisigoth]

hi all :)

untill now i've been running one of these :



originally as supplied by mac, it was a 3 plater, but i added another section and made a 4th plate. i'm not sure if i have taken a step forward, or if i'm loosing the plot and after my boiler builds just gone build bonkers 8-} . i took this lot (originality a few lengths from the scrappy) :



threw them together, and ended up with this:



the easy flanges were soldered together as usual, and i tig brazed the view port side arms with 15% sticks (was the only thing other than 45% i could get in 1.6mm). this thread was originallygoing to be a bit of a comparison of small caps vs large caps, but i thought some of you might find my first run .... amusing.

i had changed my usual cooling set up (3/4 gate valve, feeding the rc from the top, then out through the bottom and into the bottom of the pc). i thought a needle valve might give me some more fine control, so i hooked it up and the flow was so restricted, i decided to reverse the flow through the rc to make sure it would always be full.

i threw in a tpw, one of two, got water flowing and fired up the boiler (ok, so i turned on the switch :)) ). took some time, but as it started to heat up first the bottom plate portal started to fog up, and slowly, slowly, the same thing creeping up the column. when the whole column finally got going, the top plate started to fill... it was like a friggin fountain blowing out the top of the downcommer :scared-eek: .
i turned off the element for a few seconds, then on again. that was enough to get some fluid into the downcommer to block off the vapour. then the next problem... vapour pouring out of the vent hole in the parrot where it connect to the pc. there wasn't enough cooling in the rc to throw it into full reflux. i think the 400mm copper mesh packed column between the column and the rc helped give a little reflux. the pc was running a lot hotter than usual.. the valve, even fully open, was just too restricting ~x( . i clipped some curved copper plate in front of the vent so the vapour was hitting it, condensing and dripping into a pan. luckily there was no ignition sources nearby.. once the temp started to go up i shut it down. i know there was still alcohol to be had, but i didn't feel comfortable continuing, and it was a cleaning run any way... but i did want to know what abv i'd get out of the small plates.

considering it was running more or less in pot still mode and i was loosing product it could have been worse. 91.3% temp adjusted. someone commented that you loose flavour with small caps, so i figured that would equate to higher abv. running 4 large bubble cap plates on the old column plus the 400mm packed section had me getting 93.5%. i have put the cooling system back the way it was.. except i changed to the 3/4 gate to a 1/2 gate. i tested the flow, and it's *much* better, and the smaller gate gives me better control over the flow than the 3/4. tomorrow i'll have another crack with a mix of tpw, fermented juice from bottled fruit (various fruits) and some spirits i had run in the past that i just don't care for. we'll see what abv i get. :pray:

[coffe addict]

Looks great man, what size is it? What power were you throwing at it and what are the rc details?

[invisigoth]

<sigh> too much informations, but anyway...... column i thought was obvious from the pics.. 4 inch with 3 inch sight glasses (4 inch sight glasses struck me as too much of a pain to do). each module is the same as mac's original modules.. 150mm long. as for the specs for the condensers, i didn't feel like measuring. macstill determined the dimensions when he made them ;-) . here's a couple of pics with a ruler so you can figure it out...





and so.....

i did another run today. this time, with the gate valve (smaller than original) and the input feeding from the top of the rc, in the opposite direction to the vapour flow.. everything was much more civilised. the plates were all bubbling away (gotta say, it's nice to finally be able to see what's going on with the plates! ). after being in full reflux for 20ish minutes, i then slowly adjusted and paused, adjusted and paused to get the first flow. after a bit i could see the alcometer slowly (and i do mean slowly) rising. was able to have it sitting on 2 drops a second to take off the fores. a little adjustment and up to a steady 92min/l. unlike yesterday, the rc you could touch for about 10s before it was uncomfortable to hold. the pc was always cool to the touch except for the very top which was slightly warm. so much nicer than yesterday's fiasco! the output came in at 92.5 abv.. a bit disappointing. when the other tpw is finished i'll see how the 5 large caps do. i was getting 93.5 with 4 large bubble cap plates and the old 3/4/3 column. oh, and since the question was asked.. 2400w. :roll:

[coffe addict]

If you're chasing neutral you'll want a packed section...
But in the meantime add 1200w and still take off at the same speed. That will give you a much higher reflux ratio and you should be able to get to get 94%
Water that down and run a second time and it'll clean it up even more.
Your run sounds good for a brown spirit run!

[invisigoth]

If you're chasing neutral you'll want a packed section...

if you had actually read the first post, you would have known there was a 400mm section packed with copper mesh between the plated column and the rc :violence-stickwhack:

my usual run is 4 plates for flavour. i just wanted to see how the small caps go compared to large. i'll be running another tpw with large caps to see if there is a difference in abv. not interested in a neutral per se, i use the higher abv to dilute to 70% for surface sterilisation. at the time i didn't have the head space to go with a 500mm packed section.

[coffe addict]

You're right it was in the original post which I did read, guess it got lost in the waffling. My bad.
To increase abv increase reflux.

[scythe]

I would separate the water flows for the RC and PC,
That way you can use the needle valve for the RC and the PC will still be getting enough water to cool the vapour.
Sizing of the needle valve will depend on how cold your water is but bigger is better for more flow.

[invisigoth]

You're right it was in the original post which I did read, guess it got lost in the waffling. My bad.
To increase abv increase reflux.

i changed too many variables at once. i'll run it exactly the same with the large bubble caps to see if there is a difference... which was originally the purpose of the exercise :)) . going from what was essentially a 3 inch column with 4 inch plates, to a 4 inch column with 4 inch places may have made a difference.

I would separate the water flows for the RC and PC,
That way you can use the needle valve for the RC and the PC will still be getting enough water to cool the vapour.
Sizing of the needle valve will depend on how cold your water is but bigger is better for more flow.

i prefer to keep in simple. when mac sold me the still head he said to set it up running from the rc to pc. even though the column has changed, that setup still works just fine. the problem arose when i changed to a 1/2in needle valve as currently sold by fsd. too much constriction. changing to a 1/2 in gate valve worked really well and i could make small adjustments fairly easily. more easily than the original 3/4in gate. i got the takeoff speed i wanted and at no stage did the pc get hot. it was cool for the entire run :handgestures-thumbupleft: .

[woodduck]

Nice rig mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Andrew]

Sorry but we don’t currently sell 1/2” needles valves , all we have at the moment is 3/8” needle valves

[bluc]

<sigh> too much informations, ,,,,,,,,, as for the specs for the condensers, i didn't feel like measuring. macstill determined the dimensions when he made them ;-) . here's a couple of pics with a ruler so you can figure it out...

An in focus shot with ruler would have been a bonus so we could actually read it would have been a bonus, since it is you and not everyone elese we are trying to help, so best I could guess is 100mm long 4x 3/4 pipes. I run a 75mm 5 3/4 pipea and knock down 2000w. It has half inch water pipes and half inch needle valve.. I dont know what to tell you how many watts of power are you throwing at it?
Edit: ok 2400w. Are you runni g the plates from macs build. Blowing up throug downcommers and not holding reflux screams of to much power but 2400w? Something dont add up..especially with multi cap plates..

[invisigoth]

Nice rig mate :handgestures-thumbupleft:

thanx.. not as nice as some of your work, but at least it doesn't leak!

Sorry but we don’t currently sell 1/2” needles valves , all we have at the moment is 3/8” needle valves

right you are. i do have a 1/2in . massively bigger, didin't work properly and the inlet hole isn't much bigger than your 3/8. i think they need higher pressure to be effective, and my supply is gravity fed from a 1000l rain tank, the outlet from the pc empties into a plastic garbage bin and pumped back into the rain tank when the bin is nearly full.

Edit: ok 2400w. Are you runni g the plates from macs build. Blowing up throug downcommers and not holding reflux screams of to much power but 2400w? Something dont add up..especially with multi cap plates..

it was just the top plate. i seem to recall someone else having a similar problem, which they said they solved by turning the boiler off for a few seconds then on again. this is what i did and that worked. i hadn't stripped the rig down, so it was still set up. fluid in the down comers from the previous run stopped that from happening on the next run. i suspect that had the rc been cooled properly, there would have been enough reflux to overwhelm the vapour coming up through the down comer.

[invisigoth]

another run with tpw, this time single bubble caps... the same ones i used with my old column, plus one. adding the extra plate didn't help. 93.2% temp corrected. i was getting 93.5% with one less plate on the 3in column. 8-} . so it seems there was very little difference abv wise with my setup between small and large caps.

not sure what the next run will be. i have banana wine and a corn/rye/barley ag competing. either way no packed column next time and back to 4 plates. i'm hoping that the slightly lower abv i was getting will translate into better flavour from the banana brandy and whiskey :pray: . .

[bluc]

If you want more flavour to come over have you tried running less reflux more power? Or even turning rc off once plates are loaded..I only have a tiny rc bout 75mm between in out I leave water on flat out valve fully open and run my still on about 3000w at average 88abv. On other end of scale with vodka I have trouble holding full reflux. I have 4 multi cap plates and a packed section for vodka. For vodka have no issue holding 95+ whole run..

[invisigoth]

If you want more flavour to come over have you tried running less reflux more power? Or even turning rc off once plates are loaded..I only have a tiny rc bout 75mm between in out I leave water on flat out valve fully open and run my still on about 3000w at average 88abv. On other end of scale with vodka I have trouble holding full reflux. I have 4 multi cap plates and a packed section for vodka. For vodka have no issue holding 95+ whole run..

when i run for flavour i do run faster. can't add any more power, 2400w is it ;-) . with a 25l wash i don't think id wanna run any more. based on the drop in abv produced compared to the old column, my guess is that will equate to more flavour naturally. running with the packed section with the 3 inch column running 4 inch plates the parrot was reading 95 for the whole run, but once you take a proper reading and correct it for temperature, it comes out as 93.5. my packed section is 2/3 the length of yours, which would also make a difference. i was running a hbs boiler originally and didn't have the space for a longer packed section. the boiler i made gives me more space. i think dropping the 5th plate and adding a 200mm packed section to the 400 may be more effective. the run i did yesterday with the new column had no trouble holding full reflux for 30 mins :handgestures-thumbupleft:

with 4 plates on the old column flavour runs usually started at about 91abv and dropped to about 70abv when i was done with the tails. we'll just have to wait and see. with my current cooling set up i have no problems running the rc for fast flow and still have enough flow through the pc. mac did a good job coming up with this rc/pc combo. i like simple. once i have the fores through, i set the tap for running and just leave it alone and it takes care of itself :-D .

one thing i've noticed with having sight glasses (it's kewl to see what's going on) is being able to tell when the tails are on their way, because the glass fogs up on the lower plates :dance: .