Thinkin of upgrading to 3 or 4 "

[Jonno]

Hey lads,

I got meself thinking the earlier today. Now that i finally got me shotgun sussed. Is it worth upgrading me pot to a 3 or 4"? I've only got 4800 watts of power to throw at her. By upgrading from 2" will my speeds improve at all?

CHeersssss :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Cane Toad]

3" will double your volume mate,so I give the idea a big thumbs up :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:
Ps,throw another 2400w Into the equation and go 4" :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Dominator]

So 4800w on a 3" will strip faster than a 2". Obviously a bigger still will be able to do spirit runs faster too.

[SBB]

and 4 inches will strip faster again using 4800

[Jonno]

How fast do ya reason she'd go?

[SBB]

No real Idea, just have to suck it and see.

[Bushy]

I reckon go to 4" Jonno.
Then throw some windows and plates in it and yr laughin. No more strips cos they're all spirit runs :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[blond.chap]

I'm really happy to be corrected in this, but I can't see how increasing the pipe size of a pot still will increase take off speeds. The way I figure it is:
1. The rate that vapour is generated is dictated by the boiler power
2. The condenser then needs to be big enough to be able to convert all of the vapour to liquid

So provided that the pipe isn't so small that friction causes a pressure build up, the diameter won't affect it much (I recon you could go as low as 1/2" before this became a problem, using this calculator http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/). The only impact I can imagine of diameter is that a smaller one will give more passive reflux (higher surface area per volume and faster flow). But that wouldn't make all that much difference in take off speed.

This is obviously totally different when you've got a reflux condenser, where diameter dictates the plate area, so a larger diameter gives more surface area for vapour-liquid interaction.

So by that logic you won't get much of a difference in take-off speed if you increase the pipe, you'd be better off starting your bubbler build.

[Camikaze]

Havin a stab at the science thingo here but I guess bigger diameter = more heat thrown at it = more vapour in column = the ability to condense more product over a given time.

Condenser needs sizing accordingly though.

How smart was that? F'ckn Friday too. :))

[blond.chap]

Havin a stab at the science thingo here but I guess bigger diameter = more heat thrown at it = more vapour in column = the ability to condense more product over a given time.

Do you mean if you have more power in the boiler AND a bigger diameter column then you'll get more product? Because I agree with that (though still think a 2" column would be ok with 4.8kW)

[Camikaze]

Thats what I'm thinkin mate yes. More product compared to a 2 incher over a specified time.

Bigger column allows for more heat to be applied. More heat = more vapours.

:think:

[Jonno]

That's why I asked if there a point in me going bigger if the only power I got is 4800 watts. I could install another circuit but with only a 50 l boiler ATM I don't see the point. Maybe once I find me that wine fermenter.

[MacStill]

it's all about throughput, less restrictions the better :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[dogbreath vodka]

it's all about throughput, less restrictions the better :handgestures-thumbupleft:

So would a 4" reflux condenser with a 2" tube through it be better than more smaller tubes to stop restrictions?
And would 4" 90 degree bends on top of that be better than 2" bends or not make any real difference?


DBV

Just askin' :-D

[db1979]

A bubbler follows very similar principles to column chromatography that I used to do a few years back in a research lab.

You start with the mixture you want to separate at the top of the column and add solvent which then causes the mixture to interact with the solid phase and the liquid phase. Essentially the components of the mixture move down the column based on how they interact with both the solvent and the solid phase, some prefer to spend more time stuck to the solid phase while others spend more time dissolved in the solvent. The wider the column, the less height they take up in the column and therefore you're able to separate a larger amount of mixture with a wider column. Try to separate a large amount with a narrow column and the components get spread out over a larger height and you get smearing (overlapping). The only difference between a liquid-solid chromatography column to a bubbler is that a bubbler separates based on boiling point (and components move up, not down the column).

I agree with blonde about the speed of a pot still, since gases are highly compressible you can get a bucket load of gas going through a small constriction but you need a lot of energy to push it through (in a pressured gas cylinder that energy comes from the volume of pressurised gas). We're not trying to do that with a bubbler though, we are looking at separating components in the wash and a wider column will allow more loading and therefore more hearts can move through the column at the one time. So take off speed is a function of how much separation (compression) you want between heads, hearts and tails and this is dependent on column diameter - for a given energy input.

So jonno, go for 4 inch if you can get some.

[Jonno]

Couldn't find any at th scrappy today and couldn't find any 2" for you either. I got a short length here thou in the back yard if ya wanna come by and grab it mate. I'm just runnin the vm ATM. Long night ahead :laughing-rolling:

[blond.chap]

A bubbler follows very similar principles to column chromatography that I used to do a few years back in a research lab.

You start with the mixture you want to separate at the top of the column and add solvent which then causes the mixture to interact with the solid phase and the liquid phase. Essentially the components of the mixture move down the column based on how they interact with both the solvent and the solid phase, some prefer to spend more time stuck to the solid phase while others spend more time dissolved in the solvent. The wider the column, the less height they take up in the column and therefore you're able to separate a larger amount of mixture with a wider column. Try to separate a large amount with a narrow column and the components get spread out over a larger height and you get smearing (overlapping). The only difference between a liquid-solid chromatography column to a bubbler is that a bubbler separates based on boiling point (and components move up, not down the column).

I agree with blonde about the speed of a pot still, since gases are highly compressible you can get a bucket load of gas going through a small constriction but you need a lot of energy to push it through (in a pressured gas cylinder that energy comes from the volume of pressurised gas). We're not trying to do that with a bubbler though, we are looking at separating components in the wash and a wider column will allow more loading and therefore more hearts can move through the column at the one time. So take off speed is a function of how much separation (compression) you want between heads, hearts and tails and this is dependent on column diameter - for a given energy input.

So jonno, go for 4 inch if you can get some.

Yay, someone agrees with me, as I said, for a bubbler or packed column diameter matters, for a pot still I can't see it being all that important.

[MacStill]

So are we talking about stripping ? if the answer is yes, refer to my previous comment ;-)

[blond.chap]

So are we talking about stripping ? if the answer is yes, refer to my previous comment ;-)

I'm always happy to be corrected by someone with first hand experience. I'm just working with theory which is always dangerous.

[Jonno]

How fast do you strip blonde in your 4". Or do you not do it n e more?