Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Reflux still design and discussion

Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby spudie » Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:23 pm

The Stig wrote:The outlet water should be around 50 - 55 deg for a spirit run
For a stripping run I used to push it to 65 - 68 deg
And yes collect everything down to around 20%
Then put it all back in, dilute to below 40% , I used to go to 30% and do a normal slow spirit run.


Thanks - thats the data I was looking for.
Dont you just love being an idiot & having experience on hand to assist.

rgds Spudie
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby The Stig » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:13 pm

Every day is a school day :happy-partydance:
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby mcjas » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:33 pm

Hi all,

Newbie here so forgive me for maybe asking the obvious, but what is the reason you guys replace the provided plastic hoses with copper ones? :think:

I have made 7 runs now with my T500 and like the result already, but there is always room for improvement.

I have now about 5 liters of 92% lying around, made via the way the manual describes, only tossed out the first 150 ml, and then collected it all without making cuts, will it benefit the quality if I
make a run with that (diluted to below 40%) according to the way described here?
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby The Stig » Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:52 pm

Plastic will slowly dissolve in high ABV , leaching into the grog you drink .
Rerunning or redistilling will always improve the quality of your product.
Making cuts (correctly) will improve your product immensely.
You’ll end up with less product but it will so much nicer.
A wise man once asked me years ago “what did I want, Heaps of cheap grog or a lesser amount of fantastic grog ?”
I chose :music-deathmetal: the latter
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby mcjas » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:05 pm

thx Stig, will be replacing the top hose and the exit hose with copper then.

So to see if I understood the difference between the manual and this way:

the manual's way:
I now put the wash in the kettle, and let it start to boil with the water flow controller closed. When I see the temperature come in the 60 C range I open up the flow controller and let it cool down to approx 55 C. This will take some tinkering with very small adjustments, but within 15-20 minutes I have it on a steady 54-56 C range. The first 150 ml I collect and set aside for cleaning windows etc. and the rest I collected all in one big jug, transferring it into bottles when room was needed.

The Proper Way:
Wash in the kettle, start boiling it, but now with the flow controller wide open. Wait until the temp is around 40-45 C and then the fores should start to come. Ditch the first 150 ml and then close the flow controller valve a bit until the temp is in the high 40/low 50 range with a bit more output, and collect 200 ml max in separate glass containers.
After 6 jars the valve can be closed more so the output comes back (what temp range???) until the smell becomes unpleasant, and the output will be lower as well since all the alcohol is taken out.
I understand the temp is only indication and one should look at the output, but since I am a rookie I would like to have a guidance from the temp gauge in order to have a clear understanding on what kind of flow I am looking for
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby spudie » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:13 pm

Hi all.
Progressing along journey with T500, interesting difference when stripping run using as described above, especially the water cooling start timing. Copper tubing being made at moment.
Having internal discussion with Domestic Control as to power usage & costs. Help required pls... :think:

I'm an addicted FFV Brewer now and using 3 fermenters, does take some time to do the 3 strip runs then the spirit run.
Looking at doing costings for power usage & product ingredients especially with not using SS Turbo.

Eventual purpose would be using calculations to be able to justify a keg conversion to have 50lt boiler and Reflux / Pot still either self made or HBS.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby RC Al » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:44 pm

The ROI on a still isnt too hard to get back - if you actually use it.

Most of us with bigger stills (and spare time) end up being fairly generous with friends and family.

I recon the break even on a pot/boka setup in the first year is under a bottle a week ie if you buy a bottle of (even crappy) spirts most weeks, a still is worth while on the $$ front, Time is another matter (I see a bottle shop about twice a year these days and have a coronary most times, once you develop a bit of a taste for the good stuff life gets dearer in those places). Naturally a plater system is much more than that straight up, however after that if you stop buying equipment then life is very good. However you will always want that new shiny thing that will do x,y or z for you, so the $$ may keep flowing, you end up with a bunch of stuff at the end and way more booze than you can responsibly drink, not a terrible net result :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Every stiller needs a Pot still

FFv should be cheaper than turbo on the ingredients side, but that is a moot point when we are looking for quality. Turbo sure can be faster and give a higher abv for the given boiler charge and take less time overall because of that. Power is negligible spread across a per litre work out +/- 60c an hour for 2400w
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby resist » Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:32 am

I did my last T500 run following these instructions. It works really well and I'll be doing all future runs this way.

My only issue came with using a power controller, which I've been setting to around 75 percent for previous runs. This time, at 75 percent power the output was ridiculously slow, like 1 drop every 5-10 seconds, something around 100ml an hour :laughing-rolling:

After 2-3 hours of this, I bumped the power up to 100, and then started getting a normal output.

I figure this method is intended to be run at full power, and NOT using a power controller? Or should I have reduced the water input, rather than cranking up the boiler?

Appreciate any tips, cheers
Last edited by resist on Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby MarkA » Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:50 am

Hi resist,

That's correct, these instructions are for running without a power controller.
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby resist » Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:27 pm

Cool, that makes sense, thanks MarkA!

Is anyone doing stripping runs with their T500? If so, I'm wondering how you'd go about it? My thoughts are to slow down the water input right from the beginning of the process, and aim for 65 degrees on the water output temp. If anyone has experience doing stripping runs with the T500, I'd really appreciate your guidance, cheers.
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby The Dark Alchemist » Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:17 pm

resist wrote:Cool, that makes sense, thanks MarkA!

Is anyone doing stripping runs with their T500? If so, I'm wondering how you'd go about it? My thoughts are to slow down the water input right from the beginning of the process, and aim for 65 degrees on the water output temp. If anyone has experience doing stripping runs with the T500, I'd really appreciate your guidance, cheers.


That's what I do - 65 - 70C as temp. Easy and simple, then dilute to 40% max and spirit run...
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby resist » Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:58 am

Hi Dark Alchemist,

When doing a stripping run, do you run the water from the beginning, as soon as the boiler is turned on? Since we're doing a stripping run, and not worried about heads, my instinct is to switch on the water only once the column starts to warm up (approx 40 mins into the process). Am I on the right track?
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby The Stig » Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:17 am

Whenever running any still, it’s good practice to turn on the water as soon as the still is turned on.
Doing this will allow for any issue that may arise such as leaks, cracks in hose or any other issue yiu can think of.
Cheers
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby Yorkie88 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:35 pm

Does anyone know if the boiler should be turned down once the TPW is boiling?
My boiler has the 2 switches for 1400w and 900w so just wondering whether it should be reduced to 1400 or 900 once it's up to temp to help slow it down....or should it just be controlled solely by the water flow?
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby Professor Green » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:55 am

Many people run their stills by controlling the power rather than the cooling. I have an older t500 boiler that's been modified to switch between full power of both elements or the lower power of just one of them and I used to always switch to the lowest powered element once boil was achieved when running my 2" boka. The principal will be the same for the T500. You want a nice gentle rolling boil.
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby PittStreetFarmer » Wed Feb 15, 2023 8:47 pm

Hi all,
I’m very much a newbie and have taken the plunge into the hobby with the purchase of a T500. So far, my results have been very mixed – a rollercoaster ride for sure. My T500 is one with a copper column with copper/ stainless packing (no ceramic saddles). Also, I’ve added a 2” sight glass with a copper bubble plate (from 5 Star). Apart from the sight glass, it is a stock standard T500.

So, my very first batch was used as a cleaning run (21 litres of Turbo Fast)- I figured that I wouldn’t be drinking it and I would probably stuff something up anyway. Turns out that I ran the T500 a little too fast and got an ABV of around 88%. My 2nd run went a lot better (slowed the output flow right down) and I got around 92% ABV the whole way through. I was pleased with the product and a happy little camper.

Before my 3rd run, I decided to clean the T500 column out. Gave everything a good clean and made up a batch of “551” cleaner. Repacked the column. During my 3rd run, I experienced “flooding” big time. I was unable to keep the temp constant during the run as I had in my earlier (pre-cleaning runs). I got massive surges of hot (steaming) product from the outlet tube. The ABV was around 70-75%. I just collected what I could and figured I would add the (crappy) product as feints into future runs.

After the disappointing run, I had a careful read of the helpful comments in this thread and forum which indicated that my ‘flooding’ problem was due to over-packing the column. I then took all the packing out of the column and re-packed, making sure not to tamp or shake the column while repacking. I had much success! My 4th run went smoothly with a good quality (92% ABV) and amount (>2 litres). I was confident I had slayed the T500 “flooding” beast.

However, I hit a major roadblock last weekend during my 5th run. Constant flooding all the way through, even though I had not messed with the column after the 4th run. I ended up turning off the boiler and repacking the column 5 times during the run and each time I had the same problem – nothing made a difference. At one stage, I left about 2 handfuls of stainless steel scrubbers out of the column and I still had flooding. I was sure that I had not over-packed the column as I could hear the scrubbers move inside the column when reinstalling onto the boiler.

So, I seem to be in “flooding” hell with this T500. To give context on how I re-packed the column, I took out all the stainless and copper packing and separated them. I then took the empty column and held it at a slight angle to allow the copper packing to slide in first. No shaking or jiggling. Then did the same with the stainless packing until the column was filled with about 4-5cm of empty space at the end.

I’m pretty sure I’m not getting puking up the column as I can see a gentle boil in the sight glass. Also the output is crystal clear. I’m at a bit of a loss to fix this issue given nothing worked last weekend. I did notice in my earlier runs that I had quite a lot of dripping (almost like rain) in the slight glass returning to the boiler. I didn’t see this during my last run, but I did notice some liquid returning to the boiler down the side of the sight glass. I’m also not sure if the ambient temp might be causing the flooding. It was 37 degs last weekend during the run, but one of my better runs was done on a 39 degree day.

Anyway, sorry a bit of a long post. Any hints, comments or suggestions to fix this flooding problem would be very appreciated.
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby Yorkie88 » Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:27 pm

Professor Green wrote:Many people run their stills by controlling the power rather than the cooling. I have an older t500 boiler that's been modified to switch between full power of both elements or the lower power of just one of them and I used to always switch to the lowest powered element once boil was achieved when running my 2" boka. The principal will be the same for the T500. You want a nice gentle rolling boil.


Sorry I missed this reply! Thanks for the tip, next time I think I'll switch one of the elements off once it's boiling, I think the incoming water was a bit warm too and I couldn't get it to do the full reflux - I was using the still spirits pump in a box thing (water flow regulator) so it had constant pressure and I had that fully open but it was a warm day.
Hopefully lowering the heat input will help things run a bit cooler overall.

Ended up with 87% ABV so I guess something wasn't quite right - it tastes really spicy, like prickly on your mouth too so I might dilute and re-run that lot again.

Shame I'd already taken 2x500mls out to mix, one with apple juice and one with cherries.....maybe the spice/heat of it will ease over time :D

Cheers!
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby Jedstar » Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:08 am

The prickle spicy taste is Heads being collected along the way, best results will come from separating them from what you keep. You can always rerun them later on if you wish. Reducing the heat or cutting to one element will definitely assist with your flooding issue, repack back to where you had success, run two elements until you reach boil, then go to one element, get everything balanced, what ever you've collected to this point will be rejected as it will be fore shots. The first 300mls after balance can also be rejected.
Then start collecting in 300ml lots, not all at once as the manual suggests.
Sort your heads Hearts and tails, use the hearts and store the heads and tails for another day. You should get a less prickle and a much more pleasant and smoother product. You may even consider rerunning your prickly product once you are getting consistent success.
Also your cooling water, are you running an open circuit as in tap to still to drain or a closed circuit tank pump still tank? Consistent temp water will help, if your tank is too small it will build heat and may affect you balance over time. Ambient temp is not really an issue as long as you not getting steam coming out at the collector your all good.
Hope this helps, let us know how you get on
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby Yorkie88 » Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:54 pm

Thanks Jedstar,
I ran it open circuit, from the hosepipe and back out into the garden.

I did collect in 3-500ml ish jars on the run but even the 6th and 8th smelled the same as the second so I just mixed them all in (I didn't include the first 300ml though as that one did smell different and sweet) - I'm sure that's my issue with this run, but it also sounds like it is possible to get the heads mixed in all throughout the run if the system is out of balance?

I think the remainder will be getting diluted and re-run as a bit of a practice and test with the single element when I get time.......the already mixed stuff can sit in a cupboard for now to remind me not to rush ahead!
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Re: Running a T500, the Proper Way - Discussion Thread

Postby Jedstar » Wed Mar 15, 2023 8:30 am

Yes running it FULL NOISE will increase the chances of smearing and it sounds like that is occurring, slow that "bad boy" down on the spirit run and you should get a far better result.
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