FSD 2" Boka

Reflux still design and discussion

Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Carol » Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:52 pm

Hi Geoff

I agree with Wellsy. You will learn a lot more from doing it and working it out than any thing you read. It only starts to make sense when you actually do it. After 18 months or so I don't think I can ace it - but I am happy if I am reasonably competent. Cheers Carol.
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby BigRig » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:19 pm

Hey carol when you said you have enough low wines from 3 stripping runs to do a spirit run, how much on average do you get and at what abv ?

I just did my first stripping runs on the new still and i got 15L at 45% from my 3 fermenters. When i diluted to 38% i ended up with 18L.

Whilst its enough for a run i interpret your posts as you having a full boiler (i.e 25L) from your 3 strips. Is this the case or do you do the spirit run with whatever you have ? Or do you dilute further to ensure the boiler is full on the spirit run ?
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Carol » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:17 am

Hi big Rig

I run Boris with whatever I have got from the three stripping runs. I dilute to a bit less than 40% and 18 litres at 38% sounds about right. Sometimes I add the tails from the previous spirit run ( diluted ) so that adds a bit more.

Cheers
Carol
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Gasman » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:17 am

RC Al wrote:Unfortunately you can run too slow
You potentially have put heads through the whole lot
The correct amount of power is needed to create the reflux required to get the separation desired

Opening the valve like that meant no reflux was going back down the packing

Chuck it all back in, set the power arround 2000w , run it as slow as you like from there with the valve. Use more cut jars.


Good morning folks
Firstly thank you all for your constructive comments.
Rc I took your advice and did a rerun at Max Continuous 2000watts and I believe it has made a huge difference
I collected 29 jars of 300ml which I diluted and tested this morning
Now I think as I progressed from jar 15 ( middle) I felt some subtle changes at jar 7 so I stopped and then went the other way and again stopped at jar 22 ish
I tasted jar 29 and it was awful
So I'm thinking maybe keep jars 7 -22 or 8 through 21 ish and do a feints run later with the left overs


Wellsy if you by chance read this I tasted a tittle of a previous BWKO which I had sort of cut ( used the middle 3 jars of 7 from a previous fopar) and I quite liked it.I then tasted a previous tittle of BWKO from a earlier experiment which wasn't cut and i didnt like it,so cutting made a huge difference -so thank you all
However Wellsy my question is I think I would like to do what you have done and that is go towards a traditional Bourbon recipe of Cracked corn,rye and barely and forego the wheat and caramalt.You said you have been using malted rye and barley but the recipe on wiki says its rye and malted barley.Im not sure if the malted Rye makes a difference when compared to Rye and vice versa with the Barley and malted Barely
Also im having trouble finding where to purchase both these products ?

Carol i closed my offtake valve for the full 45 minutes after the boiler got to 78 like you suggested so I think the training wheels are coming off 8-}

Kind regards Geoff
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby RC Al » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:52 am

You will have trouble getting unmalted rye up north, seems its not used for stock feed much so it seems only available to Victorians, rye flour can be used and theres even a recipe that uses rye bread

Stock feed/produce store for barely

Hbs or online for malted of either

Malted anything will add character to your brew. Some people substitute unhopped liquid malt extract (lme) to give a flavour boost
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Carol » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:59 am

Hi Geoff
Sounds like you are doing pretty well. Cuts are the key - and small jars make it easier. Lots to learn but it is lots of fun.
Cheers
Carol
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Wellsy » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 am

Hello Geoff
I just swapped out the wheat or oats from the BWKO recipe and used malted rye. I got mine from a home brew supplier and it was about 75:00 for 20 kg. It has a strong flavour so you don’t need a lot of it. In my AG experiment I am using Blucs recipe of 7 kg of corn, 2 kg of Barley, 1 kg of malted Rye in a 50 litre wash.
Inititially I am enjoying the straight BWKO as the rye is peppery but it feels more like alcohol bite. My stuff is only 3 months old so I have no doubts it will mellow out.
There are so many variations and recipes it really does test our patience lol
I only do my tasting around where I think the changes are and I struggle to pin point why I like one jar and not another but I am not stressing about why, just following my instincts as I want quality not quantity because I love the process of distilling
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby BigRig » Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:06 pm

Did the spirit run today and i ended up with 23 x 250ml jars, i will let them air and have a play on australia day.

Did have an issue though, was hot and humid and i feel the boka struggled a little to knock down the vapour as i did get a little venting from the top, i will put it down to the cooling water being a little warm. Anybody else have this issue ?
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Carol » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:25 pm

Hi Bigrig
I run a pump in the swimming pool so cooling water is cold. I think the top is supposed to vent a little ( Is that right Andrew?) Distillate comes off pretty warm though but that does not seem to be a problem.
Cheers
Carol
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby BigRig » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:09 pm

Yeah i was expecting some venting but it was a little too much. I changed over the water from the tank to the mains and it seemed to fix it.

Was very happy with the results, very well made still thats for sure.
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Gasman » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:37 pm

RC Al wrote:Mate a 1/6 of your volume is not cuts on a pot still or any still for that matter...
If the dunder is still in the boiler, drop the lot back in the boiler and run it through again and do smaller cuts
If its gone, I would suggest re running it with wash from generation #3

This is not how you cut anything except the double retort setup that some scotch and rum producers use, you could stick the middle two jars on oak maybe... dilute some down with water and see whats there.

You cant shortcut learning cuts. This is the single most important skill in our proccess, how much you dont drink is determined by everything else

How long did the run take?



Small SOS now being initiated :angry-banghead:

The scenario is that i have done a Spirit run using my FSD pot.I used two copper rolls in it and ran it nice and slow after having put my BWKO stripping runs in@40 abv.
The still seemed quite happy and I turned the Volts down on my PC so she just trickled out

So I collected
33 jars in total but...
9 jars of 300ml @ 87 % then jar 9 to jar 16 the abv slowly crept down to 83 %,as I kept going,jar17 started at 82 % then slowly crept down to jar 24 which ended at 76 % then the remainder from jar 24 to 33 which finished at 65 %

So I didnt expect these ABV 'S to hold up for so long as previously they came down really fast for the quantity it produced from the combined low wines ( I had at least 25 liters in at 40 %) and ultimately I ran out of bottles ( hangs his head in shame ) while the ABV was still at 65 %.So I stopped the still run as I had been there for 8 hrs and also had the bottle dilemma altho in the back of my mind I'm thinking I could still be pumping out hearts as each bottle smelt ok.

So moving on I aired them and today had a 'go' at cutting them

My completely novice,newbie,totally confused sensory smell taste is saying ditch the first 8 bottles 1- 8 which all came out at 87% and keep all the rest down to and including bottle 33 which is at 65%

Does this sound right and also is it at all possible to do " to slow a run " using the power controller with my pot still in pot mode

As always many thanks Geoff
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby RuddyCrazy » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:55 pm

Hi Geoff,
Here's a tip that I use with cut jars :handgestures-thumbupleft: I use small cut jars for the heads then when I'm in hearts (a quick sniff test is all thats needed) I just combine the hearts in a large beaker so i have enough cut jars for the tails. Now I do assume your a coffee drinker so get some moccono and the coffee jars make for great cut jars with the larger ones great for keeping the hearts in. Now when leaving the cuts over night just take off the plastic seal and use the lid to keep the critters out :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I also use the larger ones for aging and find after 2-3 months on oak they are ready to bottle :obscene-drinkingchug:

Cheers Bryan
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Wellsy » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:57 pm

Well done Geoff
the good news is the ABV falls away fast at the end, and yes the spirit run is a long day. Get your play list set up and just jump off the world for a day when you do these runs would be my advice :)

Sounds about right mate I usually find tails kick in around 60%, I have had them go as low as 50% and one run they started at 63.

when you find the cut point just taste either side of it and you soon get the hang of it. Percentages are a guide only on where to start looking and can never always be relied upon
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Wellsy » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:01 pm

I meant to say you better go find a lemon mate, yu need something to suck on to get the smile off your face lol.

There is nothing quite like that first spirit run. Now you just have to be patient and wait a few weeks at least until you start testing. Again there will be nothing like the day you start drinking and think "i made that ". just remember it does need age but we both know your first batch is not going to get any lol.

Better get another batch going
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Carol » Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:32 pm

Hi Geoff
You have had fun.
For comparison purposes - this is a summary of my notes from my spirit run with Nutrigrain Whisky.
I used full power to get it up to temperature and then cut it back to 60%. Increased power towards the end of the run.

31 jars in total.
Started at 82%. Ran out of vegemite jars at #22 and had to resort to stubbies.
At jar 23 ABV down to 61%. Collected down to 19% just to see what would happen (jar 31).
Jars 23 - -31 to tails. Jars 1-6 to heads.
Ended up with 3 x 3l(ish) jars at 65%. Oak dominoes for 1 month.

It looks like you are getting the hang of things.
Cheers
Carol
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby BigRig » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:57 pm

BigRig wrote: Did have an issue though, was hot and humid and i feel the boka struggled a little to knock down the vapour as i did get a little venting from the top, i will put it down to the cooling water being a little warm. Anybody else have this issue ?


After talking with Andrew seemed i was throwing too much power at the boiler. I picked up a power controller and today did a spirit run with the power on 70% and it performed perfectly.
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Gasman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:50 pm

Carol wrote:Hi Geoff
Wellsy has a FSD 4" pot and has "played" with it a lot so he is a good source of info.
I have done one lot of nutrigrain whisky. Pot still configuration - 2 copper coils in column.


My notes tell me that I discarded 300ml fores and then collected in 300 ml lots wirh power at 60%. Started at 82% ABV and collected down to 19%. Power increased as I got into tails.
I ended up with 31 jars. Then I made my cuts.

Maybe you will need to wait until the power controller arrives.

Cheers
Carol



Hi Carol

I find myself in this section of the board a lot as the topic deals with the FSD stills which obviously I have and am trying to get a handle on

So I have been experimenting :))
I've done spirit runs with 2 coppers ;1 copper ; and you guessed it no copper
Yes I know I'm quite adventurous :-D
So ......
I don't think I noticed much difference between the 2 compared to 1 ,but initially using none made a big difference

I have done all three test runs nice and slow.

I did the no copper I think on Saturday.WOW I thought no what disaster but I stuck a toastie in it and slowly it's evolving and it's seems to be coming back to what I know or expected.Not sure yet weather I will persist or change back to one copper

Anyway.Not sure if you or some other moonies have tried with our rig and could offer a comment

Enjoying the whole experience though

Kind regards Geoff
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby The Stig » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:52 pm

Are you talking about no copper in a Boka ?
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby Gasman » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:03 pm

The Stig wrote:Are you talking about no copper in a Boka ?

Yes stigster
No copper in my FSD column when running the pot with my power controller nice and slow on a spirit run after a stripper
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Re: FSD 2" Boka

Postby The Stig » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:10 pm

So the answer to my question is actually No.
Your running the pot still not the Boka
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