Using reflux still for flavor ?

[MacStill]

Ok guys I thought this might deserve some discussion, I know Spud uses a reflux still and is making rum and whiskey from it and it's something I have not done.

When I started out with a reflux column I was making vodka and using flavors to get my final product, I then pulled all the packing out and ran as a pot still with stripping wash's and then doing spirit runs for a good rum or whiskey.

I've noticed some talk and had conversations with Spud about running a reflux inefficiently to do single runs with retention of flavor, so now I'm interested to find out if building flutes and the like are a waste of time, or have I been following the correct path, or is there a happy medium you can achieve using a reflux still.

I'm really happy with my bubble still for making flavor at high ABV and will continue with it due to how it compresses heads n tails giving me a huge hearts cut, but would like to bring this discussion out into the open so I can explore possibilities for new design concepts for future builds, and perhaps offer a hybrid bubbler/reflux still for sale in the future.

Cheers.

[reknaw]

Yeah, I have been thinking about this to. I have done a bit with a 1 mtr and 1.5 mtr reflux column, the lowest ABV I have achieved was 73% when using the 1 mtr column with about 5 pieces of packing in it and run wide open as far as it would go.

Last run with the 1.5 mtr with 5 bits of packing got me 85% at the start but I got it to 82% by pulling the condensor right out as far as it would go. I wanted to get about 75%.

I was thinking a column in 3 inch - say 2 mtr and half packed would give 85% (educated guess) but it would pull it off real fast. Then fully pack it and it'ld give 95% and at twice the rate of a 2 inch column.

I have also been thinking about a flute (in the distant future), my brother-in-law has a $300,000.00 bit of kit that is computerised that can cut, machine, drill, shape into any shape that is programed into it and he said he'll make stuff for me if I want.

I am thinking is it worth all the mucking around though.

[Kimbo]

Hi Guys,
so what's wrong with say the 2" double reducer that bassb just got?
my understanding is that you can use it as a reflux still for running your neutral spirit, or you can detach the column,clamp the condenser head to the boiler and run as a pot still.
will doing this give you the low ABV ( say60%) you require to get the flavours needed ?

[reknaw]

Hey Kimbo,

Yeah know what you are saying, take the length out of the column and use as a pot still, a combo.

With using the reflux still and detuning it you will get a higher ABV than a pot still but not as high as a reflux still running in "neutral mode"

Different stills and different ways of running them will give different results.

With a flute you will get say 90% and a really high takeoff rate, I am thinking you may be able to get the really high takeoff rate but use a detuned reflux still (say 85%) A lot easier to build a reflux still :)

Maybe??????????

[MacStill]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that design, it's a reflux/pot combo so you can make rums, whiskeys and nuetrals with the same rig, so it negates the need for buying/making two different stills, great concept, economical and been around a long time.

You wont get a high ABV in pot mode first run, but you will pump that first run out real quick (stripping run) so after 4 or 5 strip runs you fill the boiler and do a spirit run that will be high ABV whilst retaining flavor.

Now! this is where the bubbler comes into it's own, 1 run at 90% ABV with full flavor, I do a 25L wash in 3.5 hours from start to finish and get bugger all heads n tails because they are compressed, the hearts cut is so much more than when using any other type of still It's going to take a lot to convince me anything can be "better" for "my" requirements.

[Kimbo]

so if you wanted too, you could pull out the condenser coil, and push on a leibig to run as a pot still (ie another attachment?)
also, on a seperate note,can you vary the ABV output with
a: varying the amount of water flowing thru the condenser
b: adjusting the take off valve
( on a Bok)

[MacStill]

Just to add:

I agree with the fact a reflux still is a lot easier to build than a bubbler, and the end result might be close enough to be happy using a detuned reflux for high ABV and retaining some flavor.

I get side tracked about bubblers, I love em, but I guess that was not really the point of my post initially :?

I am trying to find out how I can build a still that can be a combo bubbler/reflux column for making nuetrals and flavors, it could be just a pipe dream but it's worth exploring.

A typical run of cuts from a 25L wash through my bubbler goes like this.

400 to 500ml heads - 95 to 93%
2600ml hearts - 92 -89%
800ml tails - 89 - 20%

Usually takes about 2.5 hours from time it comes to temp to collect through to tails and about 30 mins to collect tails, however, the still stops producing once tails are coming so I turn up heat, close the primary condenser (delpheglanatmatererer) and collect at the rate of a horse pissing.

[MacStill]

so if you wanted too, you could pull out the condenser coil, and push on a leibig to run as a pot still (ie another attachment?)
also, on a seperate note,can you vary the ABV output with
a: varying the amount of water flowing thru the condenser
b: adjusting the take off valve
( on a Bok)

Yes you could, but why? you already have a condenser doing the same thing as a liebig anyway ;)

A, yes, but better to keep it going steady, there will be a point where it will stop condensing due to heat and lack of coolant.
B, being an LM still you dictate the terms via the needle valve, ie; the more you open it the less reflux going back down the column, or by opening the valve enough to prevent reflux you reduce the efficiency of the column and lower the ABV by doing so, LM stills rely on reflux to keep the column temp stable.

[reknaw]

Yep, different horses for different courses :) I would love a flute but it's out of my league unless I got the brother in law to build it.

As McStill said the flute compresses heads, hearts etc so you are going to get a better result than a detuned reflux still. Me being a bit of a ruffian I'ld probably get away with a detuned reflux still for awhile :) Far less than ideal but......

[MacStill]

Far less than ideal but......

no no no, I dont think so mate :)

I want to know more about how you and others are doing this, because I have not had good results using my reflux column like you do, but I was always led to believe that stripping and spirit run was the way to go, so the few times I tried half refluxing? I was disapointed with the flavor.

I'll let the cat out I guess just to clarify my agenda :lol:

I've almost finished a bubbler with the option of a LM reflux head on top of it, connected via a tri clamp above the delpholmotor, and replaceable via tri clamp with the standard bubbler product condenser....

:lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

[Kimbo]

thanks mate,
the reason i asked is coz I'm currently scrounging the materials for my 3" bok combo, :D
i just wanted to make sure that this is the way i want to go coz the way i see it, is when its built, i intend to pursue your whiskey, all bran and rum recipes therefor i wont have much need for running neutral spirits. :D

[MacStill]

You could always build a plate tree for it later on...... cut off most of the column and whack a sight glass in here n there, tri clamp a shotgun in and build a condenser...... too easy! bubbler :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry! :?

[Kimbo]

:o Smart ass :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
But maybe later on down the track, i wouldn't mind building one! :mrgreen:
i think i'd like to see one in action first coz for me it would be a pretty big step :lol:

[MacStill]

If you do ever build one make it a long term project, or get someone to build it for you...... they are a real PITA to get nice.

Your 3" DR bok will be awesome, you can get over 2L per hour out of it at 95%, and just for a little trivia to give you some idea.... a 3" pipe holds twice the volume of 2" ;)

You should also consider reflux centering rings and a VM take off to make it as good as it can be, these options can be added at a later date if you make the neck between the 2 reducers long enough. ;)

[Kimbo]

Thanks mate,
i did the math on the volumes a while back,
can you explain further/ show pics or drawings:

"You should also consider reflux centering rings and a VM take off to make it as good as it can be, these options can be added at a later date if you make the neck between the 2 reducers long enough"

[MacStill]

Cant really show pics or drawings because I cant draw on a computer and didnt take pics of the centering rings.

I can show a pic of my 2" bok/VM combo I built, I'll dig it out and post it when my head aint so fuzzy :P

There's quite a bit of discussion on centering rings at HD, they suggest anything over 2" requires them to evenly distribute reflux back down the column.

Were getting way off topic here, and this probably deserves a title of it's own.... so I or Spud may split this topic into it's own.

Cheers.

[Kimbo]

No worries mate,
i was just doing some research on HD,
it seems not so long ago, a young McStill was asking some very similar questions :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[MacStill]

Yes your right kimbo, about a year ago after stuffing around with brew shop stills for so long I decided I should build my own, I'm glad I'm in a position now where I can share what I've learned :)

I've decided not to split this topic because neither topic would make much sense afterwards, but it would be good if we could keep this topic on track for future reference of using reflux for flavor.

So if you feel the need to discuss your build why not start a topic about it, and keep us informed of your progress while you ask questions along the way, and update us with pics as you build it :D

Cheers.

[Psykamaholik]

Digging up the ancient past here, but it's somewhat related to my question:

With my super reflux still, if I build a controller for the element to run it at a lower temperature, will that be enough for me to run whiskeys through and retain the flavour? I know a pot still would be more appropriate, but looking to work with what I have in the meantime while I build/modify some other stuff together if it's at all possible.

[scythe]

From reading the rest of this thread if you were to just remove 50% of the column packing and strech the rest of the packing in the column you would get some flavour carry over.
Not as good as a bubbler but some is better than none right.
Give that a go and see if your happy with that.

I wonder if you could make up some packing "pucks" of fairly compressed scrubbers and space them like you would perforated plates.
If that would work?