4" packing options

[crozdog]

Hi guys,

going to put a 4" packed extension on top of a bubbler to see if i can produce a reasonable vodka with 1 run through what i guess you'd call a hybrid bubbler 8-) .

The question is, what should i pack it with? Options I've come up with are:

SPP - Manu is the cheapest, but his is pretty small - from what i've read, it might be a bit too small for using in a 4". I dunno that I want to make a rig to DIY + stain mig wire aint that cheap

stainless scrubbies - cheap & readily accessible, but how well do they pack a 4"?

copper mesh - probably $$$ - & where do I source a 500mm long, 108mm diameter roll?

PTFE tubing - yes you read that right plastic!! PTFE is highly chemical resistant - used in medical and food industries. Don't believe me? Checkout this russian site I came across while researching SPP. But where can it be sourced cheaply?
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=9b4efad421c8b103b2c94b796db973b0&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stillsmart.co.uk%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D1%26t%3D966%26start%3D45&subId=c9e1a4916342c08ae73641c891c4770b&v=1&libid=1343612999579&out=http%3A%2F%2Ftranslate.googleusercontent.com%2Ftranslate_c%3Fhl%3Det%26ie%3DUTF8%26prev%3D_t%26rurl%3Dtranslate.google.com%26sl%3Dru%26tl%3Den%26twu%3D1%26u%3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.svoimi-ru-kami.narod.ru%2FSpirt%2FRectific.htm%26usg%3DALkJrhhczCfeqX1uLwtlrNWFNhxlOF2Aow&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stillsmart.co.uk%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D1%26t%3D966%26start%3D30&title=StillSmart%20%E2%80%A2%20View%20topic%20-%20spiral-prismatic%20packing&txt=http%3A%2F%2Ftranslate.googleusercontent.com%2Ftranslate_c%3Fhl%3Det%26amp%3Bie%3DUTF8%26amp%3Bprev%3D_t%26amp%3Brurl%3Dtranslate.google.com%26amp%3Bsl%3Dru%26amp%3B...&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13436130735334

i recall that there are a couple of packed 4' columns around - and wonder what they used....

Has any one tried a packed 4' column and have lessons to share?

I'll probably start out with scrubbies due to their availability / cost but If I can find something better at a reasonable price am interested in trying it out...

cheers
croz

[Chocaholic]

I have Structured Copper Packing in my oversize 2" column and its great.
Linky http://www.amphora-society.com/Structur ... d_p_6.html

Being able to roll it up, I'm sure you can inter-weave another layer or two for the desired thickness.

[Anthoney]

How long is your 4" section going to be? You might have channelling problems in a packed column that dia. I would go SPP myself but the small size of Manu's SPP, whilst increasing your theoretical plates per length of column, also increases the likelihood of channelling in a column that wide. It is not so bad if the column is short.

[crozdog]

thanks for the ideas so far.

The column will be 500mm long.

[Brigand]

Just thinking out loud.

I've worked out a way to introduce a 2" packed section into my 4" bubbler using bits and pieces I have on hand.

Will this 2" section limit through put or can a reasonable speed be maintained.

It'd might be easier to go down this route if it were feasible.

Cheers

[SBB]

As another option you could have a look at the ceramic saddles used in T500s, Not sure what they are worth but they are readily available from Homebrew Stores

[Anthoney]

CD 500mm is not so long and should not present major channelling problems if evenly packed. So study tells me, I have no practical experience to back that up.

B how long a 2" section placed exactly where in your 4" bubbler? Would still have good output if it is above any plates you use, at least one and the more under it the less it will restrict output, I think, as it is fed only with high ABV vapour. I don't think even one plate above it would be a good idea but could be wrong. Only my best guesses with no practical experience.

SBB I don't think ceramic saddles are that efficient as packing. If you can't go SPP, go structured copper, if you can't go SC then go scrubbies; copper if you can or stainless will still do nicely and are the cheapest easiest option. This much I feel sure of when ranking the packing. PTFE is perfectly usable just not very good/efficient.

With a short 500mm column I would really consider the trouble or expense of SPP as it will make more use of the available hight than any other packing. Around three times better than scrubbies.

What is your column and bubbler made from? Copper? Stainless?

I do believe the hybrid is a route worth pursuing. That is why I chose it for my first build. One day all neutral stills may be made this way and we will wonder why we used to build such tall things. SPP helps with the hight just as the bubbler does. The two together should be killer for short, fast high purity stills.

[Brigand]

Have 750mm sections on hand

Haven't really done any research or experimentation but something along the lines of this

Untitled-1.jpg

Not to scale :-D

Cheers

[MacStill]

I have something similar going on Brigand, except I'm going to put the packed column section under the bubble tees.... dunno why but my instinct keeps telling me to do it that way,something about cleaning it up before it hits the plates is what I'm thinking ;-)

[Brigand]

Would love to hear about any results either way :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers

[Anthoney]

B 750mm above 4 plates seems a bit like overkill to my gut instincts. The longer the restriction the more resistance it will introduce and the more it will slow things down. The main reason to put a packed column above 4 plates is to get the neutral spirit you can't get with plates alone. The reason for putting a plate underneath the column is to improve the efficiency of the column by feeding it high ABV vapour.

I think less than 750mm would do but it does depend on what packing you use. PP has had good results with as little as 12" of scrubbies in a 2" column above an 8" bubble ball. Not getting neutral but fast, stable, high proof output.

Mc Still, I would have thought a plate feeds a column better than a column feeds a plate but will be interested in your results. If you feed a plate with a column then the restriction of the column will effect the output of the plate. The column is at it's least efficient just above the boiler. Use a fat column to feed the plate. I know you know this but just to explicate the discussion.

For pure whimsy I like the idea of an inline thumper followed by a perf plate followed by a valve plate followed by a bubble plate followed by a column. Not the best order really as the perf plates at the bottom dry up more easily at the end of the run, reducing efficiency hence stability of output, but the thumper should relieve that somewhat and I like the evolution as you go up aspect. Should probably be thumper, bubble, valve then perf then column. Be nice to watch the variations in action; at least the first few times lol.

[crozdog]

apart from amphora, where could I source copper mesh?

Also anyone know of a spp supplier other than manu?

Oh, its a staino bubbler - a dash 1 to be exact.

[R-sole]

There's the eastern guy on Artisan is selling SPP, but it takes months to recieve it apparently.

[MR-E]

I have something similar going on Brigand, except I'm going to put the packed column section under the bubble tees.... dunno why but my instinct keeps telling me to do it that way,something about cleaning it up before it hits the plates is what I'm thinking ;-)

Do you think it would stop a lot of distillate returning to the boiler as well :?:

[Twisted]

I have Structured Copper Packing in my oversize 2" column and its great.
Linky http://www.amphora-society.com/Structur ... d_p_6.html

Being able to roll it up, I'm sure you can inter-weave another layer or two for the desired thickness.

Does the amphora society post to Aus? and are they ok to deal with?

[crow]

Listen i've been thinking about this ever since hearing reports on neutrals and bubblers . My thought is why not make a section packed with coke , the surface area would be massive and should induce refluxing maybe many times better than stainless anything , black coal doesn't seen to absorb anything and I wonder if this wouldn't work much better than stainless . it could be crushed to be as loose or dense as you choose and after washing it it seems to give off no residue , I mean its pretty much just solidified carbon Edit did I mention cheap :D

[Sam.]

I have Structured Copper Packing in my oversize 2" column and its great.
Linky http://www.amphora-society.com/Structur ... d_p_6.html

Being able to roll it up, I'm sure you can inter-weave another layer or two for the desired thickness.

Does the amphora society post to Aus? and are they ok to deal with?

Yep I had some delivered to Oz about 18 months ago (only got to use it about 2 months ago :angry-banghead: )

No problems with postage or delivery, all went very smoothly. 2 packs was enough to pack a 1500mm 3 inch column with some left over :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[crow]

Should have mentioned in my post above that I meant coking coal , some smeltering slag might work to but that depends on that was smeltered to as is may contain sulfides and hydrochlorides

[Chocaholic]

I have Structured Copper Packing in my oversize 2" column and its great.
Linky http://www.amphora-society.com/Structur ... d_p_6.html

Being able to roll it up, I'm sure you can inter-weave another layer or two for the desired thickness.

Does the amphora society post to Aus? and are they ok to deal with?

Yep I had some delivered to Oz about 18 months ago (only got to use it about 2 months ago :angry-banghead: )

No problems with postage or delivery, all went very smoothly. 2 packs was enough to pack a 1500mm 3 inch column with some left over :handgestures-thumbupleft:

I have some coming from here http://www.home-distilling.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=323&idcategory=40.
The cheapest delivery option for 2 packs freight was just under $50.00, delivered in 6-10 business days :crying-blue:

[JagCrusher]

SPP from scrubbies... http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.homedistiller.ru%2F71.htm

Those crazy Russians! :shock: