Hobo got Copper, uh oh!

[googe]

It wont work to good on its side though :laughing-rolling: YES I finally got to say it to someone else haha. Sorry hobo, I always put pics sideways and get shit for it lol. Drawings are very helpful , I understand now. Its the old style cm except for the condenser. Ive been told the rc setup doesn't do much in them designs, correct me if I'm wrong. I did a liebig like yours but put an outside coolent area too, yours should work, might get over hot on strip stop like empty said. But you'll never know till you run it so its all speculation till then . Good work mate, looking forward to seeing it finished.

[Hobo]

Oh yes, bloody sideways pics, sorry, haven't worked out how to avoid that without too much misery.
By RC setup are you referring to the reflux column cooling? (water jacket)
If so, I have read that they don't make much difference. I haven't made the column yet so any input is welcome.
I am not looking to do stripping runs, my aim is to build a reflux still that can do 90+ purity for neutral as I don't have the space for any other form of stillin.
I have limited experience and understanding in regards to still construction. I have done a LOT of reading but experience is where you really learn.

I have spent $39 bucks so far, so I am not too stressed.
I am basing my design on a still a mate of mine has been using for some time now and he reports 90-95%
I have also had thoughts about a Boka build ...

[googe]

. Yeah the water jacket mate, what you've got is a pot still with a little reflux. Ive never read anywhere of one producing high abv like your mates. Is his much the same as what your doing or did you just take some ideas off his?. A boka or lm or vm will get you up in that zone. You can obviously build pretty good :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Hobo]

Yes, well mates do have a tendency to Bullshit eh? I have samples his finished goods and they are really good.
Main thing is I need something that is not a frickin monstrosity and that can make good neutral. I cannot afford space to store low wines to still later. I need to be able to ferment, still, store.
Maybe the Boka is the go? All I know is my current rig (makes a good drop) Is too small with a 25l boiler, and the 1/2 inch opening in the boiler lid is a deal breaker for me.
A 2 inch column with packing would have to be better.
The design is pretty similar to my mates column, the main difference is mine will be all copper.

[emptyglass]

I'm gunna step backwards a few paces if you don't mind.
Ok, so space is more precious than time. Thats cool, we all got to work with what we got.
The next big one is what sort of drink do you want to make mostly?
This can have a big bearing on the style of still. The one you are planning may or may not get you above 90%, I cant say, but if you are making vodka to then make rum or whiskey, its a somewhat unsensable approach. If your planning on making vodka for consumption as vodka, you might struggle to get to where you want to be.

[Brendan]

I need something that is not a frickin monstrosity and that can make good neutral.

Unfortunately Hobo, anything I've ever seen that can make a good neutral, HAS been a monstrosity...

To get good separation, you really need the height...

Otherwise you will need to re-distill many times over on something smaller...and without being able to store low wines...really pushing your luck on this one.

You need a bubbler :D , and if it's only short, can just run it twice :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Hobo]

I'm gunna step backwards a few paces if you don't mind.
Ok, so space is more precious than time. Thats cool, we all got to work with what we got.
The next big one is what sort of drink do you want to make mostly?
This can have a big bearing on the style of still. The one you are planning may or may not get you above 90%, I cant say, but if you are making vodka to then make rum or whiskey, its a somewhat unsensable approach. If your planning on making vodka for consumption as vodka, you might struggle to get to where you want to be.

Time I can afford seeing as I seem to be rained off more that I am working. Try and imagine containing you whole existence in a space 2.4m x 12m..everything you own, everything you need for everything needs to be in this space, then add two kids..teenagers.
Anything that is not necessary for life is taking too much space.
I currently have a 25l boiler with a primitive 300mm tube and some weird ass coil condenser. It actually makes a good drop...IF you ferment a good wash.
Maybe I should just put up with what I have got.
I used to have a house in Melbourne with a big garage where I could brew, weld, experiment and spread out.. I am pushing my luck with what I am doing now but I am making spirits that I can use to flavour with wood chips and other things to come up with something I enjoy more than commercial spirits.
I don't really care about the numbers, I just want to make something I can work with.

[emptyglass]

Sorry bloke, I forgot about your space limitations.
Basic rule of thumb, the fatter the still, the faster, the taller the still, the purer.
Just because your still is short, dosn't mean it has to be slow, but it will mean it wont be so pure. There is a balance to be struck by all of us.
I'm sure your rig will work, and as you say, you have some unique limitations. I hope it works for you :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[googe]

Emptys on the.money mate. I too forget that your mobile. your design would be good.for.them.limitations. I really don't know enough about other stills as ive only owned a pot and bubbler. It's good to bounce ideas around with people :smile: .

[Hobo]

Yes, some things can be a challenge living on the road, but I think my new build will work for what I want to do, the short little stub of a still I currently have get 65% max and is slow because of the small opening.
So my new rig will be taller and bigger diameter. I will just have to hurry up and finish it so I can give it a whirl. :happy-partydance:

Thanks for your input

[bt1]

Hello Hobo,

I've been looking at your design. Strikes me that by it's layout it could benefit from a modified cold finger condenser to improve abv's.

I don't say this out of hand and just pure think...I've been using hybrid pots for years.(pot plus coils) House mate runs one each week and runs between 93 ~ish and finishes up collection well above 85abv that's temp & altitude corrected.

What we need to do is to induce more reflux to improve quality. Suggestion then is where the temp port on top of column enters, remove insert a long loop cold finger condenser. Loops being over length coil winds separated from the main exhaust tube of the cold finger. Pack that gap and coil to condenser walls loosely with SS scrubbers to increase the chilled surface area, (same as I do on the hybrids).

Introduce a 12 wind gate valve or better to accurately control cooling flow and I reckon you'd add the same abv gains I saw on the hybrids of approx. +30 pts and variation/control in run of about 12 - 15abv points....ie turn cooling off so like stripping (more like a faster run than pure pot stripping btw )and loose 15pts...

I used to use em for single run bourbons and with a good grain/sugar head wash it was a bloody nice full flavoured drop, but be ruthless on tails cuts....come to think of it I kinda miss that ballsy flavour hit!

Happy to discuss.

cheers
bt1

[Hobo]

Hello Hobo,

I've been looking at your design. Strikes me that by it's layout it could benefit from a modified cold finger condenser to improve abv's.

I don't say this out of hand and just pure think...I've been using hybrid pots for years.(pot plus coils) House mate runs one each week and runs between 93 ~ish and finishes up collection well above 85abv that's temp & altitude corrected.

What we need to do is to induce more reflux to improve quality. Suggestion then is where the temp port on top of column enters, remove insert a long loop cold finger condenser. Loops being over length coil winds separated from the main exhaust tube of the cold finger. Pack that gap and coil to condenser walls loosely with SS scrubbers to increase the chilled surface area, (same as I do on the hybrids).

Introduce a 12 wind gate valve or better to accurately control cooling flow and I reckon you'd add the same abv gains I saw on the hybrids of approx. +30 pts and variation/control in run of about 12 - 15abv points....ie turn cooling off so like stripping (more like a faster run than pure pot stripping btw )and loose 15pts...

I used to use em for single run bourbons and with a good grain/sugar head wash it was a bloody nice full flavoured drop, but be ruthless on tails cuts....come to think of it I kinda miss that ballsy flavour hit!

Happy to discuss.

cheers
bt1

Thanks for your idea BT1, I am pretty new to this so I am not familiar with the idea of a cold finger condenser but from reading your description, it sounds like a similar concept the the Boka design?
Putting a condensing coil in the top of the column would send vapors back to the pot. Would that mean that when I build the column I would need to allow more column height above the vapor tube between the column and condenser?

Also do you think that the water jacket on the column is going to help reflux much?
It will be interesting to see what this unit will put out.

:text-thankyoublue:

[bt1]

it sounds like a similar concept the the Boka design?

Yep your spot on, the cold finger just adds a larger diameter central tubes to the wound coils. Coolant in by wound coils normally and exhaust by central riser tube.

Putting a condensing coil in the top of the column would send vapors back to the pot. Would that mean that when I build the column I would need to allow more column height above the vapour tube between the column and condenser?

No I don't see any value in adding a spacer.... this after all to be kept simple compact and robust for travel.

Also do you think that the water jacket on the column is going to help reflux much?

I had 2 early builds using CM external cooling, now salvaged. They work to some extent but the same coil in vapour path is a far far better option.

The issue with CM's external coils I found is surface walls of column chill mainly and the resulting vapour knock back down the inner wall surfaces defeats vapour flow somewhat.

A CM doesn't address hotter vapour rising up the centre of the column with no wall contact.

bt1

[Hobo]

Well just got more copper, back from the plumbing shop, the lady there is on to me now lol.
She says to me "how's that still coming along" haha, I guess I am not the only one here building a steam catcher.

Here is my work for today..

photo-8.JPG

Thanks BT1, I did a bit of reading up on these, they look interesting. Would that be 1/4 inch tube with 1/2 inch centre?

I am planning to soft solder the cap onto the column to make it easier to replace if I get to making a cold finger for it.

[Distillnation]

I'm not sure if you're going off this commercially available still or not, but I know a couple guys who have made.copies of it, similar to what you're doing now.

uploadfromtaptalk1368232788859.jpg

They are both able to produce 95% out of their stills. The only difference between them is that one uses TPW (finally got a convert), the other uses turbo. The one that uses turbo gets a bigger yield (about 3.5L at 95%), but we all know that it's because of how high the wash gets.

I don't doubt you will be able to do the same,but it may take a bit of tinkering with water flow, temps, etc before you get it perfect, just as they had to.

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out! Good luck mate, I'm sure you will be happy with it either way.when you make something yourself, you can't not be happy 8-)

[Hobo]

I'm not sure if you're going off this commercially available still or not, but I know a couple guys who have made.copies of it, similar to what you're doing now.

uploadfromtaptalk1368232788859.jpg

They are both able to produce 95% out of their stills. The only difference between them is that one uses TPW (finally got a convert), the other uses turbo. The one that uses turbo gets a bigger yield (about 3.5L at 95%), but we all know that it's because of how high the wash gets.

I don't doubt you will be able to do the same,but it may take a bit of tinkering with water flow, temps, etc before you get it perfect, just as they had to.

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out! Good luck mate, I'm sure you will be happy with it either way.when you make something yourself, you can't not be happy 8-)

Sweet as, that looks like the one my mate has got, it's all Staino, he's happy with it.\
I am not sure what brand it is, all I know is that they want $400 bucks for it at the HBS, money my missus would not be happy with me spending.

So far my copper has cost me $39 for the condenser and $74 for the stuff I bought today,

I am not copying exacto but that is the general gist of it.
Well I better go fire up the Mapp gas torch.

[Distillnation]

Sweet as, that looks like the one my mate has got, it's all Staino, he's happy with it.\
I am not sure what brand it is, all I know is that they want $400 bucks for it at the HBS, money my missus would not be happy with me spending.

So far my copper has cost me $39 for the condenser and $74 for the stuff I bought today,

I am not copying exacto but that is the general gist of it.
Well I better go fire up the Mapp gas torch.

That one I posted is the keggomax CM, and you're right,you will pay a lot more at the local then you would by making it yourself.

If you have a good water supply with constant cold water, you should be able to keep it in full reflux like you would any other reflux still. Adding packing within the jacketed section will help with this.

I'm not sure if you are going to be running from the tap or if you have a rain water tank or something similar setup, but either way keeping the flow cool is what you want. You don't need it coming out the jacket flat out, it should be coming out pretty warm. You will get a feel of it after a run or two. All you're doing is controlling the water input, so a tap is a big help.

This is how my mate has it set up:



The water splits and is managed by too separate taps,this allows one input source.

To put it in full reflux, the tap to the PC is turned off which directs the full flow to the RC which is opened up fully at the tap.

The output from both the PC and RC are merged into one line for ease of management but that's really just personal preference.

[Hobo]

Awesome, thanks for being so helpful Distillnation, I had planned to run it like you said, except for the water splits, but that would be a great idea to get more control.

I have access to water where I am and there is plenty (it comes from a big dam) But if I was somewhere that water was a problem I would probably set up a circulation system using the water tanks under my bus in conjunction with a heat exchanger (radiator ) with a barrel fan blowing through it.

I cant silver solder, it's too windy and I can't get the copper hot enough with my Mapp torch so I will either have to shelve it for today or go round to the bosses' place and use his Oxy.

[Hobo]

Well It is done! I went over to bosses place and got my soldering done with his oxy set, oh HOW GOOD IS OXY/ACETYLENE??!!
Best part is, he wasn't there so no awkward questions!!
BTW I do have permission to use his shed.

Got it done without too many dramas.. only one cut and two burns, lol (that's pretty good)

photo 2-1.JPG

So here it is..

copstill.JPG

I know the soldering is not 1st class but it is airtight so that is the main thing.
Next job, attack 50l keg boiler project...tomorrow??

And can anyone tell me why the heck all my photos end up rotated 90deg to the left? Both of these were in a portrait position before I posted them... Googe you might know?

[googe]

Good job mate, nothing wrong with your soldering :handgestures-thumbupleft: you got it nice and shinny :D . are you taking the pics on a phone?, if so, then turn the phone 90 degrees and try that. I was taking pics holding the phone upright and.theyd always come out sideways :angry-banghead: