1 3/8 nixon stone

[Stoney]

Stoney, your a man after my own heart :laughing-rolling: .......I'm sure its a condition that plagues most electronic guys ...you just want to automate everything .Funnily though , after years of distilling and countless hours of coming up with elaborate schemes ,I have built nothing .I just love twiddling taps :handgestures-thumbupleft:....and dream about them twiddling themselves :laughing-rolling:

BTW ..... I do think that what hillzabilly said would work.Its due to the fact that reflux ratio in a Liquid Management still is dependent on Boiler power .

The take off rate is set by the needle valve so if you increase boiler power you create more vapour and therefore more reflux . More reflux = higher ABV and the temp will drop to AZEO temp .

Decrease boiler power and you decrease vapour and therefore there is less reflux . Less reflux = lower ABV and the temp will rise .

So my logic would be that if you monitor vapour temp ,then the PID should control the boiler power and slowly increase it throughout the run.

I think this is possibly a bit about distilling you may have not been aware of by not having a fixed power boiler .By having to constantly fiddle with your temp you have not seen the slow rise in temp that happens in a Packed column reflux still as the run progresses .The rise is most apparent at the end when tails comes on .This is where your PID would see the slight rise in temp and start to increase boiler power to increase reflux and maintain the purity while compressing the tails .

And obviously a condition of flooding should never be allowed to happen

I did my last run fast, quick and dirty, ran most of it with the element on 100% and slight gas assistance as well. Learnt a lot and this post is spot on. It dropped ABV by a point or two and column top was about 0.1 or 0.2 higher than usual.

good stuff.

[hillzabilly]

Thanks hillza, great idea, will do that.

triclamp finally arrived so finished off the column bottom and even gave it a bit of a polish.



made up a blank plate and it held a column full of water last night drip free.
its clamps up nicely on this old keg without a gasket but will need a gasket on a newer keg.

started grabbing more parts for a pot still column, condenser will be 1" outer and 1/2 inner. not sure what length to do the condenser yet. will probably run it on a newer keg running a 3 ring burner only, will 60cm be long enough ?

I would do something like this ,Try gettin a silicon bakeing sheet from coles and makin a good seal for that tri clamp ,or order one from FSD.cheers hillzabilly

[Yummyrum]

Stoney..you did a great job getting that pipe to fit the ferule :handgestures-thumbupleft:
I recon your pot head looks the job and will do it fine .Riser hieght and lyne arm angle are entirely up to you and only serve to set the right distance between boiler and collection vessel.

Only if riser is too long , you would get more passive refluxing off the walls on a cooler day.But then + if you wrap a towel around it ....problem solved



By the way...nice pot Hillza :D

[hillzabilly]

I have to admit its not my baby ,but a cracker of pot still.All copper and good stainless connections.Condencer length depends on power imput mainly to me ,and if ya runin your recircalatin cooling system wich could warm up longer would be better,and if useing gas a bit of distance between burner and output would be safer.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[SBB]

I have to admit its not my baby ,but a cracker of pot still.

Unless I'm mistaken its one of Stubbydrainers old stills.

[MacStill]

I have to admit its not my baby ,but a cracker of pot still.All copper and good stainless connections.Condencer length depends on power imput mainly to me ,and if ya runin your recircalatin cooling system wich could warm up longer would be better,and if useing gas a bit of distance between burner and output would be safer.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

:text-+1: :text-imwithstupid: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Stoney]

Stoney..you did a great job getting that pipe to fit the ferule :handgestures-thumbupleft:
I recon your pot head looks the job and will do it fine .Riser hieght and lyne arm angle are entirely up to you and only serve to set the right distance between boiler and collection vessel.

Only if riser is too long , you would get more passive refluxing off the walls on a cooler day.But then + if you wrap a towel around it ....problem solved

By the way...nice pot Hillza :D

thats pots veeery pretty hey :) something to aim for :)
I like the elbow on the condenser and attachment method, makes it all adjustable. I will go with that for sure.

I wasn't going to use that full length for either the riser or the column top, thats all the 2 inch I have so not cut into it yet. just posting a pic of what I had so far, I do have 4m of the 1 inch, some 2.5/3 and 4 inch still lieing around.

will likely just have a short 2 inch length to get the 2 angles almost touching, minimise pooling vapour in the horizontal and perhaps only 1/2 to 2/3 of the vertical used.

I do have a limited cooling supply however so I think I will go with a shorter condenser than usual and run off a warm distillate. I could always add a second one later.

whats the recomended fitting for joining 1/2 tube, i was thinking of using a brass coupler (2 olives and 2 nuts) but it leaves about 1/2" of brass in the path then. would prefer a method that effectively gets the copper pipes butting up together and leaves me with a nut to tighten without spinning the condenser or column like a propeller.

i think i need a flare to solder male thread, then a flare nut ..

[hillzabilly]

All ya need is here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5381 stainless would do ya still justice ,and last long enough to pass onto Junior.cheers hillzabilly :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Stoney]

bought a few more fittings today and spent a few hours in the shed soldering, filing and buffing.

I had nowhere near the length of 1" I thought I had, it was just a small chunk sitting in a larger piece since I already had the T's and reducers I figured I might as well solder it up anyway.
I will probably end up making a second of this length but with a 32mm outer and run them in series.

I don't seem to have any leaks, filled them both with water to test. Starting to get an addiction to making things shiney.

oh, I also picked up 5kg of wheat, time to read..

[hillzabilly]

Lookin sweet ya not hangin around she will be ready soon ,I keep piece of 150mm poly with an end cap (or a tall bucket) filled with citric acid and water,when building and leave the pieces to soak inbetween stages,makes soldering and cleanup at the end easier.polish away.hillzabilly :clap:

[Stoney]

Its quite possible the column is flooding on 1800w....thats too much power for a 1 3/8" column .....also the reflux will be having a hard time returning through the 1/4"

spot on with both those points ym.

put a 4kg/20l wash through ladt night and it was a horror.

after replacing the column base last week I think my packing bunched up tighter, also had a small bit of crud half blocking the 1/4 reflux line return. at one stage I think nearly the whole condenser was full of liquid.
I did not realise till I saw a splash out of the top vent holes .. my wooden plug was seeping spirits, I thought it had gone porous but it was the liquid level was above the column top. I think I was usually running it with the vast majority of the reflux flowing back through the bottom of the cross piece. At this stage the whole column rocks slightly, now I figure its the vapour and liquid return fighting each other.

I ended up with a couple of nice jars of weetbix whiskey at 94% I reckon and the rest I might use diluted to test out my pot head when its done.

today, I replaced the 1/4 line with 1/2 inch, and repacked the column a little looser with 8 scourers instead of 11. will give it a run with my second wash shortly.

masters don't sell 1/2 capilliary elbows but they did have T pieces, the 1/4 fitting I bought for adapting to the tap, dunno what it is, it ain't a 1/4 bsp though, so just annealed one leg of the T and pressed the tap housing straight into it. just ran a vinegar/water through it for a while, seems much more polite now.

[hillzabilly]

Hope that hardwood is not eucalyptus could be toxic ,maybe oak is a better choice,cheers hillzabilly

[hillzabilly]

Frankly hearing how flooded your still got is a bit of a worry ,I sure hope she behaves after your mods ,trust me you dont whant to know what its like to have a litre plus of spirit sprayin out the top,it will take years of ya life .keep a fire extingwisha handy.cheers hillzabilly

[Stoney]

yeh, same area i weld in. apart from one drip escaping all good, I know the symptoms now, it goes fairly quiet ..

Had a dream run last night, set up a more confy chair, now I just put the PID thermocouple on the condenser exit water and set it for 10-12C above the inlet, drop cycle time to 5s or even 1s, turn off the ID on the controller so its proportional only and I get a constant reflux from start to finish.

put the night befores run through as feints plus my second wash and just did a long slow collection. its all measuring around 95 this morning and far more compressed.

its just never going to be a fast still and thats fine.

[hillzabilly]

Good to hear all went well :happy-partydance: ,the good thing about once you are happy with the results is you can allways just scale up to 2'' or 3'' colomn to increase output,plus a bit more power,and the next minute you will realize ya searisly hooked on stillin,yeeehaaa.hillzabilly :))

[Stoney]

so I inocked up a sensor array for the still. 3 on condenser monitoring inlet/outlet and vent. top of column and boiler. arduino reading everything and controlling the boiler ellement based on outlet-inlet (delta) temperature. a small bluetooth module dumps temps to ipad if i want to look at them.
green led comes on when column is correct temp and an orange led to indicate issues.
my column thermometer failed near start of run, i had it soldered into a copper pipe and its wires shorted out when it got to heat so removed and placed normal probe in there. start to finish the column stayed at 79.0C by my dodgy probe. i was getting 0.5% higher across the whole run, warm it was measuring over 97% when i am used to 96.5

arduino also logs data to its limited (1k) eeprom for later examination, keg,delta,column and heater duty cycle.
i had it erasing all data when boiler first hits 50C .. tape failed and sensor fell off, so lost initial heat up data. forget to change logging time from 10 seconds to a minute. keg thero was half falling off most of the run so affected by breezes.

in short, a few things to change for next run. total cost is a little over $20 for an arduino nano clone, bluetooth module and a 5 ds18b20's .. plus an ssr if you havent got one and a 5v power supply.

happy to stick code and more details up here if anyone has any interest.

hardware .. plugs into my control box with the PiD controller/SSR and a 5v power supply.


my first dodgy data log, the column temp (yellow) is inccorrect. the green (boiler) is ok but inaccurate due to not being in proper contact, the blue is the delta control line, the red is duty cycle used for each 10 second period.



and data from ipad if i want to double check anything.. not founnd an ideal app yet. this was early in the run as reflux was just starting before the column thermo failed..


my alcometer appears to be pretty accurate after all, tested it against the HBS one and theirs shows about 1.5% higher than mine. last nights hearts came in at about 95.2% at 20.3C.

[1 2many]

Got my attention I happen to have the same parts although my arduino is the pro mini, would love to here more about in mate in regards to the schematic and code :D

Have you played with Procesing it configures well with arduino and you could make a nice little GUI for the PC. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Stoney]

I have only been toying with arduinos for a few weeks, PICs are usually my goto device. So there is a lot to learn .. not heard of the app, will have a look later.

the code follows, schematic should be pretty self evident, i have 3 leds connected common cathode, the SSR on a seperate output but follows the red led anyway. RF module is a bluetooth BLE jobbie from fasttech.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1292002 .. only need 4 pins connected. there is some init code in the code that needs to be run once to set it up but its only a one off.

if using a 5v arduino one of these helps, i did use the RF module without previously by using the arduino 3.3v output and with or without this you need to add a voltage divider to the RX line as the arduino is 5v out and this needs 3.3v, i used a 470/560 combo. this adds a 3.3v regulator though so can run it straight off the 5v rail.

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1129102

the nano (5v version ! )

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1001002


codes incomplete and i will be changing a few thibgs yet, i want full resolution of the device on the column .. the 0.06C .. so no more dividing by 5, will use the low 8 bits of the actual reading.

edit: oh, a few librarys needed for install, i used the later version of timerone, but any will do, the onewire library and dallas temperature one.
you also need a second program that displays the address of your sensors to enter into the array up top.

added it below, has some links for the libs i think.

Code: Select all

//ensure log time is a minute i guess
//work on offset calcs .. stop rollover
//ensure we know if sensor data is faulty (oxff maybe)
//stop erase if sesnor issue .. work on feedback commands from ble app
// log jars somehow without wasting memory, allocate a few locations for more log data



#include <OneWire.h>
#include <DallasTemperature.h>
#include <SoftwareSerial.h>
#include <EEPROM.h>
#include <TimerOne.h>


SoftwareSerial mySerial(10, 11); // RX, TX BLE module output

// Data wire is plugged into pin 3 on the Arduino
#define ONE_WIRE_BUS 3

#define PIN_SSR 9
#define PIN_HEAT_LED 8
#define PIN_ALARM_LED 7
#define PIN_TAP_LED 6


#define KEG_OFFSET 50.0
#define COLUMN_OFFSET 50.0

#define DELTA_SETPOINT 6.0
#define START_LOGGING  50.0

#define LOG_TIME 60

// Setup a oneWire instance to communicate with any OneWire devices
OneWire oneWire(ONE_WIRE_BUS);

// Pass our oneWire reference to Dallas Temperature.
DallasTemperature sensors(&oneWire);

DeviceAddress Thermometer1 = { 0x28, 0xFF, 0xE6, 0x43, 0x31, 0x04, 0x00, 0x28 };
DeviceAddress Thermometer2 = { 0x28, 0xFF, 0x4D, 0x54, 0x33, 0x04, 0x00, 0x9A };
DeviceAddress Thermometer3 = { 0x28, 0xFF, 0x77, 0x47, 0x31, 0x04, 0x00, 0x5C };
DeviceAddress Thermometer4 = { 0x28, 0xFF, 0x0C, 0x47, 0x31, 0x04, 0x00, 0x41 };
DeviceAddress Thermometer5 = { 0x28, 0xFF, 0x4B, 0x4B, 0x31, 0x04, 0x00, 0xEB };

float temps[5],delta;

#define INLET temps[0]
#define OUTLET temps[1]
#define COLUMN temps[2]
#define KEG temps[3]
#define VENT temps[4]

//these are all flags
byte power,tap,alarm,run,logging = 0;
volatile byte flag_timer;

long power_on = 0,power_off = 0;
// small vars
byte value , seconds = 0, minutes = 0 ;
// may exceed byte
int index, log_time = 0 , duty = 0;

char buf[60];

void setup(void)
{

  Serial.begin(57600);
  mySerial.begin(9600);
  pinMode(PIN_SSR, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PIN_HEAT_LED, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PIN_ALARM_LED, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PIN_TAP_LED, OUTPUT);

//mySerial.print("AT+RENEW"); //Reset to factory settings.
//delay(500);
//mySerial.print("AT+ROLE0"); // 0 = peripheral, 1 = central
//delay(300);
//mySerial.print("AT+NOTI1"); // notify connection change
//delay(300);
//mySerial.print("AT+MODE2"); // 0 transmit, 1 receive, 2 both
//delay(300);
//mySerial.print("AT+IMME1"); // Don't enter transmission mode until told.
//delay(300);
//mySerial.print("AT+RESET"); // IMME takes effect after reset.
//delay(10000);
mySerial.print("AT+START"); // Ok, try to connect to something.

  sensors.begin();
  // set the resolution to 12 bit
  sensors.setResolution(Thermometer1, 12);
  sensors.setResolution(Thermometer1, 12);
  sensors.setResolution(Thermometer1, 12);
  sensors.setResolution(Thermometer1, 12);
  sensors.setResolution(Thermometer1, 12);
 
 //  for (int i = 0; i < 255; i++)
 //   EEPROM.write(i, i);

 delay (1000);
 Serial.print("\nDump\n");
 int min  = 0;
 index = 0;
  Serial.print("\nKEG+");
  Serial.print(EEPROM.read(index++));
  Serial.print(" COL+");
  Serial.print(EEPROM.read(index++));
  Serial.print(" LOG:");
  Serial.print(EEPROM.read(index++));
  Serial.print(" Heat ");
  Serial.print(EEPROM.read(index++));
  Serial.print(":");
  Serial.print(EEPROM.read(index++));
  Serial.print("\n\n");

 while (index < 1020)
   {
   if (EEPROM.read(index) == 0) break;
   Serial.print("\n");
   Serial.print(min++);
   Serial.print("\t");
   Serial.print(((float)EEPROM.read(index++) / 5.0) + KEG_OFFSET) ;
   Serial.print("\t");
   Serial.print(((float)EEPROM.read(index++) / 5.0) + COLUMN_OFFSET);
   Serial.print("\t");
   Serial.print((float)(EEPROM.read(index++) / 5.0));
   Serial.print("\t");
   Serial.print(EEPROM.read(index++));
   }
   
Serial.print("\nData dump Complete\n");
delay(100);  //allow serial to complete

Timer1.initialize(1000000); // set a timer of length 1 second
Timer1.attachInterrupt( timerIsr ); // attach the service routine here

}


void timerIsr()
{
flag_timer = 1; 
}

void printTemperature(DeviceAddress deviceAddress, char* name, int index)
{
  float tempC = sensors.getTempC(deviceAddress);
  temps[index] = tempC;
  if (tempC == -127.00) {
    Serial.print("Error getting temperature");
  } else {
   Serial.print(name);
   Serial.print(tempC);
//   mySerial.print(name);
//   mySerial.print(tempC);
  }
}

void loop(void)
{
//  delay(1000);

 while(flag_timer == 0);
 flag_timer = 0;
 
 if(++seconds > 59)
   {
   seconds = 0;
   minutes++;
   }


// experimenting with rx for commands etc .. work in progress
/*
while (mySerial.available())
    {
      char ble_buf = mySerial.read();     
      Serial.print("BLE-");
      Serial.print(ble_buf,HEX);
     
      if (ble_buf == 0xee)  Serial.print("ERASE");
      if (ble_buf == 0x01)  Serial.print("JAR 1");
    }     
 */         
           
  sensors.requestTemperatures();
 
  temps[0] = sensors.getTempC(Thermometer1);
  temps[1] = sensors.getTempC(Thermometer2);
  temps[2] = sensors.getTempC(Thermometer3);
  temps[3] = sensors.getTempC(Thermometer4);
  temps[4] = sensors.getTempC(Thermometer5);
   
// printTemperature(Thermometer1,"\nIn:",0);
//  printTemperature(Thermometer2,"\tOut:",1);
//  printTemperature(Thermometer3,"\tCol:",2);
//  printTemperature(Thermometer4,"\tKeg:",3);
//  printTemperature(Thermometer5,"\tVent:",4);

  if (OUTLET > INLET) delta = OUTLET - INLET;  // out - in
    else delta = 0.0;

 if ((logging == 0) && (KEG > START_LOGGING)) //clear memory if on a run
   {
     logging = 1;
     duty  = 0;
     for (index = 0; index < 1024; index++) EEPROM.write(index,0);  //erase everything
     index = 0;
     EEPROM.write(index++,int(KEG_OFFSET));
     EEPROM.write(index++,int(COLUMN_OFFSET));
     EEPROM.write(index++,LOG_TIME);
     EEPROM.write(index++,minutes);
     EEPROM.write(index++,seconds);
   }
     
 if ((logging == 1) && (++log_time > LOG_TIME-1))
   {
    log_time = 0;
    EEPROM.write(index++,int((KEG - KEG_OFFSET) * 5));
    EEPROM.write(index++,int((COLUMN - COLUMN_OFFSET) * 5));
    EEPROM.write(index++,int(delta * 5));
    EEPROM.write(index++,duty);
    duty = 0;
    if (index > 1010) logging = 2; // memory ful disable further capture
   }
   
 
  if (delta < DELTA_SETPOINT) power = 1;
    else  power = 0;
 
  if ((delta > (DELTA_SETPOINT - 1.0)) && (COLUMN > 75.0) && (COLUMN < 83.0)) tap = 1;
    else  tap = 0;
 
  if ((KEG > 95.0) || (VENT > 50.0) || (COLUMN > 80.0)) alarm = 1;
    else alarm = 0;
 
 if ((power == 1) && (alarm == 0)) run = 1;
   else run = 0;
 
  if (run == 1)
     {
      digitalWrite(PIN_SSR, HIGH);
      digitalWrite(PIN_HEAT_LED, HIGH);
      power_on++;
      duty++;
     }
   else
     {
     digitalWrite(PIN_SSR, LOW);
     digitalWrite(PIN_HEAT_LED, LOW);
     power_off++;
     }

  sprintf(buf, "%2d:%02d",minutes,seconds);
  Serial.println(buf);
       
  Serial.print("\n");
  Serial.print("Delta :");
  Serial.print(delta);

  Serial.print("\n");
  if (run == 1) Serial.print("HEAT ");
  if (alarm == 1)
     {
      Serial.print("ALARM ");
      digitalWrite(PIN_ALARM_LED, HIGH);
     }
   else digitalWrite(PIN_ALARM_LED, LOW);
 
  if (tap == 1)
     {
     Serial.print("TAP ");
     digitalWrite(PIN_TAP_LED, HIGH);
     }
  else digitalWrite(PIN_TAP_LED, LOW);
   
  if (logging == 1) Serial.print("LOG ");

  Serial.print(" k");
  Serial.print(KEG);
  Serial.print(" c");
  Serial.print(COLUMN);
  Serial.print(" i");
  Serial.print(INLET);
  Serial.print(" o");
  Serial.print(OUTLET);
  Serial.print(" v");
  Serial.print(VENT);


   
  Serial.print(power_on);
  Serial.print(" ");
  Serial.print(power_off);
  Serial.print("\n");

  sprintf(buf,"%2d:%02d",minutes,seconds);
  mySerial.println(buf);
 
if (logging > 0)
  {
  mySerial.print("Keg:");
  mySerial.print(KEG);
  mySerial.print(" Col:");
  mySerial.print(COLUMN);
  mySerial.print(" Cool:");
  mySerial.print(INLET);
  mySerial.print(" Dlta:");
  mySerial.print(delta);
  if (tap == 1) Serial.print(" TAP");
  mySerial.print("\n");
  }
else
  {
  mySerial.print("K:");
  mySerial.print(KEG);
  mySerial.print(" C:");
  mySerial.print(COLUMN);
  mySerial.print(" I:");
  mySerial.print(INLET);
  mySerial.print(" O:");
  mySerial.print(OUTLET);
  mySerial.print(" V:");
  mySerial.print(VENT);
  mySerial.print("\n");
  }
 
 
}
 

Code: Select all

// This sketch looks for 1-wire devices and
// prints their addresses (serial number) to
// the UART, in a format that is useful in Arduino sketches
// Tutorial:
// http://www.hacktronics.com/Tutorials/arduino-1-wire-address-finder.html

#include <OneWire.h>

OneWire  ds(3);  // Connect your 1-wire device to pin 3

void setup(void) {
  Serial.begin(9600);
  discoverOneWireDevices();
}

void discoverOneWireDevices(void) {
  byte i;
  byte present = 0;
  byte data[12];
  byte addr[8];
 
  Serial.print("Looking for 1-Wire devices...\n\r");
  while(ds.search(addr)) {
    Serial.print("\n\rFound \'1-Wire\' device with address:\n\r");
    for( i = 0; i < 8; i++) {
      Serial.print("0x");
      if (addr[i] < 16) {
        Serial.print('0');
      }
      Serial.print(addr[i], HEX);
      if (i < 7) {
        Serial.print(", ");
      }
    }
    if ( OneWire::crc8( addr, 7) != addr[7]) {
        Serial.print("CRC is not valid!\n");
        return;
    }
  }
  Serial.print("\n\r\n\rThat's it.\r\n");
  ds.reset_search();
  return;
}

void loop(void) {
  // nothing to see here
}



[1 2many]

Thanks mate that will give me something to play with :handgestures-thumbupleft: