High Horses a Philosophical question

[The Stig]

I talk to a lot of people and a few are already calling Angel yeast “cheating”

[Wellsy]

LOL

If only i could predict the tattslotto numbers that easily. I would have the best 5 star systems money can buy :laughing-rolling:

[Amberale]

Just to throw another angle at the discussion, can anybody predict the future.

I have to wonder if the traditional all grain guys will be saying the same thing about Angel yeast , that we are having about turbo yeast.

Not saying they will or won’t, or if it is a good or bad thing. Just hypothesising. Well really just read that word in the dictionary last night and wanted to use it in a sentence.

Now Wellsie, you are reading my mind and beating me to the punchline.

I haven’t read the whole 30 pages of the Angel yeast thread and a quick google shows them as a reputable food additives manufacturer( in the Chinese press releases) but I have wondered about the parallels between Turbo and Angel.

We sing ones praises and yet slam the use of the other.
I don’t know, it might be like comparing a new apple variety grown from a natural variation with GM oranges but the thing I read repeatedly is that people don’t know how it works but it does.

Hopefully it’s not made from parboiled bats. :scared-eek:

[hgwells]

Just to throw another angle at the discussion, can anybody predict the future.

I have to wonder if the traditional all grain guys will be saying the same thing about Angel yeast , that we are having about turbo yeast.

Not saying they will or won’t, or if it is a good or bad thing. Just hypothesising. Well really just read that word in the dictionary last night and wanted to use it in a sentence.

:laughing-rolling: Your English is improving everyday Wellsy

[The Stig]

Mainly because turbos are full of god knows what to make fuel, an has been repurposed for drinking.
Look at a pack, no ingredients listed. A few years ago a few of them were taken off the shelves because they tested to have urea in them.
Angel is only enzymes and yeast , I have the MSDS if anybody wants it, but it’s all food safe.

[bluc]

Angel is definately cutting corners but i would not put it in same league as turbo..

[RuddyCrazy]

Angel is definately cutting corners but i would not put it in same league as turbo..

Not cutting corners at all it's evolution in the making :laughing-rolling: Being able to ferment and convert a single grain type to strip allows for exact blending to suit a recipe. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

So ferment and convert corn, barely, wheat,rye, oats etc on their own then do a blend for the spirit run.

Now try doing that with a turbo polished turd yeast :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

Cheers Bryan

[RC Al]

Many seem to forget that many established members of any established community are grumpy old men lols

[/rant]
Another aspect of turbo hate comes from exasperation and disgust at corperate greed, a type of thinking shared by many people of the diy vein. It really is a circus using all of what they want you to use and pay for, basicly the tax your not paying goes to a corperation or two.
[/rant]

Back at my start, I tried one or two turbo wahses and the plastic filter even when reading this very site, just for perspective. Through learning from the results from that and the traditional T&T recipies, I found that my old still with a marble was really no more than a glorified pot still with a minor reflux option, I then moved to making flavoured washes and then upgraded to a homebuilt pot (reflux still from hell eta: soon).

Theres about 250g worth of stuff in a turbo packet, no doubt apart from yeast its mostly DAP and a few other choice things, it most likey would only take a couple of spoonfuls to actually make a wash work. Once you look at whats required and the effects of excess additives to what your trying to achive (neutral), its really a no brainer not to use it how they tell you.

The T500 with plastic at the top is really a joke for what they charge for them and a few copies/alternatives have come on the market that are better for not having it. (See rant)

You could argue angel is cheating as much as using a plater vs strip and spirt with a pot? Or even a sugar wash compared to All Grain to begin with? At home level we dont have a set of rules to adhear to (whats the penalty? Ego?). If a commercial producer started selling it, there would be no requirement to declare how it was brewed and they could in theory say what they wanted provided they steered clear of using terms like traditoinal with marketing. You could argue that it is a traditional asian way of doing it and us westerers are just catching up and repourpsing it to suit out tastes (aussie chinese food dishes resemble nothing like you would eat in asia for example (honey soy roo is awesome!)). See sentence one

I have a bag of fresh picked mostly ripe coffee cherries in the freezer atm, not enough to do anything serious with, but they are quite tasty, but not alot of flesh around the bean. Some coffee is fermented to change the flavour of the bean, I would like to do the distilling double whammy with it, but my neighbour only has one bush and i have too many projects atm

[RC Al]

Bryan, a leared fellow once told me a brew is like a curry, everything has to be added at the correct time, you will get different results by blending strips vs mashing those ratios together.

Im in the beginning of what your describing and it is a great way to make a mud map of where your going, but not the same as a road map. Mixed grains change the results for the better generally, but the ratios go off a bit

[Amberale]

Mainly because turbos are full of god knows what to make fuel, an has been repurposed for drinking.
Look at a pack, no ingredients listed. A few years ago a few of them were taken off the shelves because they tested to have urea in them.
Angel is only enzymes and yeast , I have the MSDS if anybody wants it, but it’s all food safe.

Where’s that like button.
Glad someone has read the MSDS.

[Amberale]

Many seem to forget that many established members of any established community are grumpy old men lols

[/rant]
Another aspect of turbo hate comes from exasperation and disgust at corperate greed, a type of thinking shared by many people of the diy vein. It really is a circus using all of what they want you to use and pay for, basicly the tax your not paying goes to a corperation or two.
[/rant]

Back at my start, I tried one or two turbo wahses and the plastic filter even when reading this very site, just for perspective. Through learning from the results from that and the traditional T&T recipies, I found that my old still with a marble was really no more than a glorified pot still with a minor reflux option, I then moved to making flavoured washes and then upgraded to a homebuilt pot (reflux still from hell eta: soon).

Theres about 250g worth of stuff in a turbo packet, no doubt apart from yeast its mostly DAP and a few other choice things, it most likey would only take a couple of spoonfuls to actually make a wash work. Once you look at whats required and the effects of excess additives to what your trying to achive (neutral), its really a no brainer not to use it how they tell you.

The T500 with plastic at the top is really a joke for what they charge for them and a few copies/alternatives have come on the market that are better for not having it. (See rant)

You could argue angel is cheating as much as using a plater vs strip and spirt with a pot? Or even a sugar wash compared to All Grain to begin with? At home level we dont have a set of rules to adhear to (whats the penalty? Ego?). If a commercial producer started selling it, there would be no requirement to declare how it was brewed and they could in theory say what they wanted provided they steered clear of using terms like traditoinal with marketing. You could argue that it is a traditional asian way of doing it and us westerers are just catching up and repourpsing it to suit out tastes (aussie chinese food dishes resemble nothing like you would eat in asia for example (honey soy roo is awesome!)). See sentence one

I have a bag of fresh picked mostly ripe coffee cherries in the freezer atm, not enough to do anything serious with, but they are quite tasty, but not alot of flesh around the bean. Some coffee is fermented to change the flavour of the bean, I would like to do the distilling double whammy with it, but my neighbour only has one bush and i have too many projects atm

Again, where’s the like button.
Thanks Al, this is the sort of reasoned discussion I was hoping to engender.

Again I am not associated with any retail or wholesale product unless someone has worked out a way to use beef for booze.
I don’t recommend using Turbos.
I don’t drink whiskey or whisky.

I Think it comes down to where you draw the line personally.
What sugar do you use?
What additives(I buy DAP in 1000kg bags but use a “human consumption” one from..... a HBS.
Does your Wheat bix or bran supplier use GM seed?
How far down those rabbit holes do you go.

[RC Al]

Thanks Al, this is the sort of reasoned discussion I was hoping to engender.

For the record my gender is just fine :teasing-neener:

[hgwells]

Many seem to forget that many established members of any established community are grumpy old men lols

[/rant]
Another aspect of turbo hate comes from exasperation and disgust at corperate greed, a type of thinking shared by many people of the diy vein. It really is a circus using all of what they want you to use and pay for, basicly the tax your not paying goes to a corperation or two.
[/rant]

Back at my start, I tried one or two turbo wahses and the plastic filter even when reading this very site, just for perspective. Through learning from the results from that and the traditional T&T recipies, I found that my old still with a marble was really no more than a glorified pot still with a minor reflux option, I then moved to making flavoured washes and then upgraded to a homebuilt pot (reflux still from hell eta: soon).

Theres about 250g worth of stuff in a turbo packet, no doubt apart from yeast its mostly DAP and a few other choice things, it most likey would only take a couple of spoonfuls to actually make a wash work. Once you look at whats required and the effects of excess additives to what your trying to achive (neutral), its really a no brainer not to use it how they tell you.

The T500 with plastic at the top is really a joke for what they charge for them and a few copies/alternatives have come on the market that are better for not having it. (See rant)

You could argue angel is cheating as much as using a plater vs strip and spirt with a pot? Or even a sugar wash compared to All Grain to begin with? At home level we dont have a set of rules to adhear to (whats the penalty? Ego?). If a commercial producer started selling it, there would be no requirement to declare how it was brewed and they could in theory say what they wanted provided they steered clear of using terms like traditoinal with marketing. You could argue that it is a traditional asian way of doing it and us westerers are just catching up and repourpsing it to suit out tastes (aussie chinese food dishes resemble nothing like you would eat in asia for example (honey soy roo is awesome!)). See sentence one

I have a bag of fresh picked mostly ripe coffee cherries in the freezer atm, not enough to do anything serious with, but they are quite tasty, but not alot of flesh around the bean. Some coffee is fermented to change the flavour of the bean, I would like to do the distilling double whammy with it, but my neighbour only has one bush and i have too many projects atm

Again, where’s the like button.
Thanks Al, this is the sort of reasoned discussion I was hoping to engender.

Again I am not associated with any retail or wholesale product unless someone has worked out a way to use beef for booze.
I don’t recommend using Turbos.
I don’t drink whiskey or whisky.

I Think it comes down to where you draw the line personally.
What sugar do you use?
What additives(I buy DAP in 1000kg bags but use a “human consumption” one from..... a HBS.
Does your Wheat bix or bran supplier use GM seed?
How far down those rabbit holes do you go.

Wow not sure if we want to go down the GM seed path :-D
That would open a whole new can of worms.
Must say that this has been one of the most interesting posts I’ve read for a while!
Thanks AA for kicking off the thread.

[Wellsy]

So what is cheating and what is being smart

Should I get rid of the voltage controller , or even the electric elements perhaps revert to fire lol

Is it ok to have lighting in the shed lol.

We do this for fun and part of the fun is doing things our own way. If I read things correctly, and I don’t always do that, the biggest objection to turbos is the unknown “ OK for fuel, but not sure for humans “ factor.

When it comes to safety the forum does not enter into discussions , it simply is what it is , eg plastic. What you do is entirely up to you but on the forum it is not up for discussion.

The biggest risk I believe we face is those with hard earned knowledge will get frustrated at the constant return to some basics and stop sharing their precious info.

Or someone will get sick from an unknown ingredient and the turbo will be blamed and the knee jerk reaction will be a witch hunt followed by the shutting down of all forums.

[FatManDancing]

May I add a couple of cents. This may seem conceited and for that I apologize

I know BBQ. I have literally cooked tonnes of meat for thousands of people. I have cooked on the biggest and baddest BBQ's in Australia and have won competitions

I love BBQ but I really do not like what it has become. It has degenerated into a Faceache rant about who and what products are better. None of you are probably aware of the absolute shitstorm and the complete breakdown of the online BBQ community that occured when a new pellet grill came into market

Who knew a new product that is easier and cheaper to use(after purchasing) could produce the same quality product that traditional pitmasters who tend their offset cookers and are deprived of sleep simply in the name of good BBQ could do

All BBQ pits produce good BBQ. There is nuance of course and then there is the skill and level of drunkness of the cook but seriously what is the worst that can happen? A burned chop or an oversmoked shoulder? Just add more sugar to the sauce

I am new to distilling. As much as I wanted it to be a Popcorn Sutton fantasy, it really is not. I wanted this to be simple and easy and it can and will be...but I still have too much to learn, Thankfully I do not have to spend much more money

What is the worst that can happen? Well this is the first time I have played with volatile and combustible gasses and an Ignition source. Do you think I am gonna get drunk while stillin and listen to Hank 3? Of course not. I am gonna be hungover and take cuts and let those jars air out while I listen to hank 3 but that is a lesson I could only learn because it was shared here


As tiresome as it may seem, never stop schoolin newbies, some of us listen and want to be better

[bluc]

Worse that can happen.... you poison yourself or others with fores that you kept and didnt label.
You can leave still unattended have it catch fire and burn your house down.
Not pay attention get a blockage and have it go off like a bomb.

Few steps up from bbq but if you stay switched on and sober while using the still its most likely safer then driving a car.

[FatManDancing]

Bluc

You are right, kinda think that info should be included in the pamphlet

[Amberale]

Worse that can happen.... you poison yourself or others with fores that you kept and didnt label.
You can leave still unattended have it catch fire and burn your house down.
Not pay attention get a blockage and have it go off like a bomb.

Few steps up from bbq but if you stay switched on and sober while using the still its most likely safer then driving a car.

I think there was a tongue firmly planted in a cheek there Bluc. :)

HI BigBoy, I also dabble in Q.
Another Low and slow fad. Is is possible to cook a good brisket that isn’t m9 Wagyu?

[bluc]

There are real dangers and one should be switched on while stillin :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[FatManDancing]

I do not buy brisket to cook at home but any 60-90 day grain fed with a 3 to 4 score should be producing good BBQ. Always inject and catch what drips. That stuff is the definition of love,