Howdy! Need some advice/help!

[victorski]

Howdy everyone,
I've really taken an interest in this nice little community and fantastic knowledge shared on these forums! I've been brewing beers for a couple years and decided to take it to the next step and would like to start distilling! I've read a lot and think I've barely skimmed the surface but things are starting to come together!

I'm looking to make some neutral with the possibility of being used as a pot still to make some flavoured spirits, would i be looking at LM for that use? I'm not particularly patient and a bit of a perfectionist so i'm thinking of investing straight into a 3" LM Boka :) I live in Sydney and am wondering if i can commission someone to construct it for me :) roughly how much a 3" Boka cost including all the copper scrubbing ?

With some help from a mate i think I'll be able to construct a Keg Boiler with a 2200w heating element from aussiebrewmakers, would 2200w be sufficient to heat 25L batches ? Also i'm super confused about what sort of yield one would get from say a 25L TPW ?

Is there anything I've overlooked ? I'm in the proccess of reading through the Compleat Distiller to gain a better understanding of the whole process :) any help would be fantastic, thanks in advance!

Victor

[devotus]

the wash question is easy to answer

25 litre TPW @ 10% abv = 2.5 litre 100% (which is impossible) then subtract approx 500 ml for fores,heads and tails etc will leave you approx 2 litre of 95% neutral.

If you're impatient then trust me stick with your idea of a big diameter column as making neutral is a pain in the butt for small diameters.

The other questions will have to be answered by those with an idea

[MacStill]

Welcome Victor,

If you want prices for custom built stills you would do well to look in the commercial section of these forums, from there you can then PM advertisers for quotes :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Here's a good place to start http://www.aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1140

Cheers.

[Kal]

With some help from a mate i think I'll be able to construct a Keg Boiler with a 2200w heating element from aussiebrewmakers, would 2200w be sufficient to heat 25L batches ?

I have a keg with a 2200W electric element. It takes about 45-55 minutes to heat up to boiling point for a 25L run, which really isn't too much time. Nowdays I do almost full 50L runs in the Keg (WPOSW) and even they heat up in under 2 hours.

[MacStill]

2200w seems fine without a controller for a well built 2" column, but it could be just a tad under powered for a 3" column, I reckon you'll need two of those elements with one on a controller to get the sweet spot.

If your going to go 3" be prepared to open your wallet though :laughing-rolling: but it is worth the extra now rather than finding out 1 liter an hour is painful, then spending again on an upgrade ;-)

Being a copper reflux still you don't really need to have all copper packing, I'm going to pack my VM with SS scrubbers for 2/3 of the column and make up the difference with punkins copper mesh.

If you havnt already done it I'd be asking quotes for both a VM & an LM still in 3" with a 2" pot head and interchangeable liebig to suit both units, then your set to make almost anything you want :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers.

[victorski]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and help :)

What type of controller would I need and would one need some sort of electrician to set it up ? that's exactly what I was thinking McStill, better spend the cash now than later :D that's good news about the scrubbing!

I'm confused about the statement about both the VM & LM still in 3" with 2" pot head, is that to say I should have a 3" LM Boka for neutrals and a 3" VM boka ? and 2" pot head to make flavoured spirits? Sorry all a bit confusing, could you explain?

If i had a 3" Boka commissioned could i achieve a 95% purity, roughly how long would a 25L TPW take to run through a 3" Boka and could i fit a 45L-50L batch in a Carlton United Breweries boiler or is there a maximum amount ?

Kind regards,
Victor

[Sam.]

Hey victor,

dont know about voltage regs as I use gas but, a "Bokabob" is a LM still. You could also build a VM still "which is not a "Boka"". With both you should achieve 95% purity as long as it has enough packing/and/or plates and you run it right.

To run a single 25L TPW through a 3" either VM or LM would only take 4 - 5 hours? (help me out element guys)

You can "charge" your 50L keg with at least 40L of wash and up to 45L if you can keep the foaming/puking :puke-huge: under control.

As for the different sizes you could keep the original ferrule attached to your CUB keg and get 2 different stills made to fit the one keg. One for stripping/flavoured and one for nuetrals. You can also use the one product condenser on both still heads if they are buily interchangeable.

Hope this helps and I haven't given you any wrong info.... :?

You said in your original post you were reading the compleat distiller, definitely finish that and a lot more shit will make sense. And if you can understand every word of it come over and explain it to me cos those equations they use are bullshit hard :text-lol:

[Kimbo]

Hi Victorski,
see the pic below of a 2.5" LM/VM combo, the outlet on the left is the VM ( vapour management)
the outlet on the right is the LM (liquid management) this valve restricts the amount of liquid coming out therefore keeping some liquid refluxing in the still, (great for bleeding fore shots and heads) whereas the VM allows the refluxed vapour to come out at a high ABV and stops producing once the tails come.
as for the 2" pot head, that will fit straight onto a keg, great for stripping.
if you make a Bok any bigger than 2" it would be wise to put a 2" reducer on the bottom. ;-)

the finished product.JPG

[MacStill]

Just to clear up what I said earlier.

You want a price on a VM & LM then make your mind up after asking questions and deciding what one is best.

You'll also want a price on a simple pot still to use for stripping wash and running gently for flavor in other types of wash's

Get both your pot..... and the VM or LM (you decide) built to suit the same product condenser, on an LM you'll still need a product condenser of sorts to cool the distillate so might as well use an interchangeable liebig that fits your pot still, and if you go VM you need a liebig anyway :handgestures-thumbupleft:

For 3" your gunna want at least 3600w, anything less is just going to be dissapointing... for 2" 2200w is fine.

Search our site for voltage controller, or PM 8-ball or Panda & you'll get all the info you need :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Cheers.

[R-sole]

You are much better off running stripped wash (low wines) rather than wash in your column. Purity is better, you get a chance to do heads compression with soda and your yield is massive.

Use the pot to strip your wash and save it up in another keg until you have 40l @ 40%. There's plent of long posts with great detail here about the value of stripping, i did a comparo some time ago, but you'd have to search unless someone knows where it is.

[devotus]

If i had a 3" Boka commissioned could i achieve a 95% purity.

Kind regards,
Victor

Keep this in mind mate, height equals purity and diameter equals speed. So you can get 95% from a 1.5 inch reflux column but (here I talk from direct experience) it is so slow that it is painful.

I would definitely go 2.5 inch - 3 inch. If copper pipe of that size is too expensive then simply make it out of stainless steel and put some copper in the vapour path. IT is not necessary to have a reflux column made completely from copper if its neutral that you're after. Your pot still head would be better made from copper though.

It's frowned upon here to tell someone to read and that's not what I'm doing but I can suggest this to read The compleat distiller http://www.filestube.com/0a68f375e4de37 ... tails.html If you read the still types and how they work you'll get a better idea of what to spend your money on without wasting any.


EDIT: forget the last paragraph you have already said that you are reading the Compleat Distiller

[MacStill]

It's frowned upon here to tell someone to read

No it's not, suggesting someone read a link you provide, or book is fine when your trying to help out ;-)

Telling someone to go do their own research, treating newbies like idiots is :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[victorski]

Oohh now things are making more sense, i guess i didn't know as much as i thought haha!

well in that case what would you suggest I get if i'd like to make neutral and a flavoured ?
Is a 3" boka an overkill, i just want pure neutral and quickly, by expensive how much are we talking here ;)

Now i'm a bit confused about "You are much better off running stripped wash (low wines) rather than wash in your column. Purity is better, you get a chance to do heads compression with soda and your yield is massive.Use the pot to strip your wash and save it up in another keg until you have 40l @ 40%."

Do i just run a TPW through a pot still rather than the column, won't that give me flavour? or do you then run it through the boka? what is heads compression with soda ? :( or is that to say that you strip your wash in the pot head and it gives you the 40% ?

I don't want to rush into purchasing something without the right research behind it so any guidance people can offer will be greatly appreciated, i'm a bit of a perfectionist and would prefer to invest in the right equipment before jumping in only to realise it won't suit my needs and have to upgrade! I just want to make a good vodka (which doesn't taste anything like some of the commercial nail polish tasting ones) and dabble a little into making some rum/bourbon and such, i'm aware this may be difficult as these spirits are generally kept for 12 years before sale and consumption :)

Ohh and I'm still confused VM and LM, I believe i understand the difference between how they work but not how that affects your final product and the pro's and con's of both :( can anyone clarify?

Now back onto the compleat distiller ;) thanks everyone for all the help so far! I'm picking up a keg in a few days and will take your advice and install two 2200w heaters and run one off a voltage controller! :D

Cheers,
Victor

[stubbydrainer]

Vic
once you ferment a wash for a neutral , you put that in the boiler and do a stripping run with a pot still, this strips the alcohol from the wash and gives you "low wines", once you collect up enough low wines to charge the boiler with 40 ltr of 40% abv, you then run that thru the boka , or reflux still, this is where the product is finished @ about 94-95% abv

[stubbydrainer]

when you strip with a pot, you strip it till the alcohol % is about 20% abv, you end up with an over 40% abv low wines and you dilute back to 40% with water . get 40 ltr and , well, away ya go on a spirit run
one of the wisest things you can do in this hobby is not rush your decisions, so just chill and take your time and ask questions until ya comfortable enough to make the decisions, then into it whole hog :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:
I've never run a VM so I cant comment on the differences in performances, so I will take a seat and let the experts take over :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[Sam.]

How many you had stubbs with your double post? :laughing-rolling:

Victor, like stubbs said the low wines is roughly 40% alcohol that you have collected prevousily from "stripping runs(running it as hard as you can)" through your pot still. You arnt worried about the quality of the low wines you just want to rip all the piss out of your wash as fast as you can through your pot still. Once this is dones you can have a boiler full of 40% alc ready to do a slow steady spirit run through a reflux still which will give you a much better product(remember this is now double distilled :laughing-rolling: ).

As for the soda, when you have a keg full of low wines at roughly 40% put a teaspoon of bi-carb soda (thanks 5Star :-D ) per litre of low wines and let mix for up to a week, this will "compress" the first shit parts of the run and give you more of the good stuff :handgestures-thumbupleft:

As for the difference between LM and VM I can't explain that real well but like it was said before by Kimbo the LM part which is a collection tray inside the column is great for taking off those nasties at the start of the run. Once your into the good shit you open up the VM and pull out the hearts, the VM should stop producing once the product starts getting shit (low alc), this is when the LM comes in handy again to pull the rest of the residual alc out of the boiler.

hope that made sense, I might be close to having as many as stubbs :dance:

[stubbydrainer]

I thought it got confusing with 40 x 40 and no one has mentioned watering down to 4o% to do the spirit run ( I dont think) :oops: :oops:
and only a couple, err few err, Oi, thats personal :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[Frank]

....one of the wisest things you can do in this hobby is not rush your decisions, so just chill and take your time and ask questions until ya comfortable enough to make the decisions, then into it whole hog

:text-imwithstupid: ;-) ..and all for free Mr Ski :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Cane Toad]

You sound like uv been srtippgn like I hvae Sutbbs,Duolbe Dtuch :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

[Cane Toad]

Fi had a mgaic bttuon I'd rename ya Dutchy :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: