First Ever Distil - TPW?

[Citris]

Hi Guys

Newbie here (Just posed in the welcome section) I am about to do my first ever spirits distils, I am going to do 3 Separate fermentations at the same time (3 fermenters, Might as well). First of all, I have a POT Still, that info might help with the answers. Now I have been reading through a lot of the post and topics on your forum to get a good idea of what to do, I have also posted a topic on the homebrew&beer forum, but was more or less directed your way.

OK first up, I want to try 3 types of fermentation, to get an idea of what I like. the 3 was going to be, Full dextrose (sugar), A full mash, using grains? (I'm probably wrong here), and a sort of half/half. I guess at this point I should mention I'm after a bourbon/whiskey. Now however, I have read about 2 different types that peeked my interest. the TPW, and the UJSM. So I guess ill start by asking, is the TPW OK to be made in a POT still? or is it more of a reflux job? Seems to me you would get a tomato taste from a POT still. Second thing relates to the UJSM, seems like this could make a good bourbon as well as a whiskey, as I have heard you sometimes loose the bite you get by just using essence. Has anyone done this? UJSM Bourbon, and what sort of recipe did you use? Wood Shavings? or just essence?

Oh and I don't suppose someone could explain how to do a Strip and Sprint run using a POT still, I tried searching for this one but came up blank, Just small amounts of info that makes me curious...

Look forward from hearing from you guys.

P.S. Any links to a 'How To' for both methods would also be appreciated, if there is any.

P.P.S Found the full UJSM recipe, just looking for a TPS one.

[Kimbo]

Hi Citris,

Hi Guys

Newbie here (Just posed in the welcome section) I am about to do my first ever spirits distils, I am going to do 3 Separate fermentations at the same time (3 fermenters, Might as well). First of all, I have a POT Still, that info might help with the answers. Now I have been reading through a lot of the post and topics on your forum to get a good idea of what to do, I have also posted a topic on the homebrew&beer forum, but was more or less directed your way.

OK first up, I want to try 3 types of fermentation, to get an idea of what I like. the 3 was going to be, Full dextrose (sugar), A full mash, using grains? (I'm probably wrong here), and a sort of half/half. I guess at this point I should mention I'm after a bourbon/whiskey. Now however, I have read about 2 different types that peeked my interest. the TPW, and the UJSM. So I guess ill start by asking, is the TPW OK to be made in a POT still? or is it more of a reflux job?TPW's are a neutral wash, there for better in a reflux. But, you can do it in a pot still, just run it thru 3 times instead of 2 Seems to me you would get a tomato taste from a POT still.You Shouldn't do if you let it clear properly Second thing relates to the UJSM, seems like this could make a good bourbon as well as a whiskey, as I have heard you sometimes loose the bite you get by just using essence. Has anyone done this? UJSM Bourbon, and what sort of recipe did you use? Wood Shavings? or just essence?the UJSM relies on the grains to give it the flavour, you wont need cordials for this, just age on oak

Oh and I don't suppose someone could explain how to do a Strip and Sprint run using a POT still, I tried searching for this one but came up blank, Just small amounts of info that makes me curious...

Look forward from hearing from you guys.

P.S. Any links to a 'How To' for both methods would also be appreciated, if there is any.

P.P.S Found the full UJSM recipe, just looking for a TPS one.

Here is a couple of links to help you out, have a look thru them, feel free to ask any Q's
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=361
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=226#p1563
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=331

[Citris]

Thanks great links, already studied the glossary haha. I am interested in one thing, when everyone mentions sugars in the TPW, are we talking dextrose, or straight up white sugar? Also the last topic touched on this, but I'm not certain I got the right idea, TPW is fine with a POT still? and if so do you need to do a Strip and Spring process? I gotta work out weather I can even do that with my boiler.

[Kimbo]

Thanks great links, already studied the glossary haha. I am interested in one thing, when everyone mentions sugars in the TPW, are we talking dextrose, or straight up white sugar? Also the last topic touched on this, but I'm not certain I got the right idea, TPW is fine with a POT still? and if so do you need to do a Strip and Spring process? I gotta work out weather I can even do that with my boiler.

Just straight up white sugar mate, You Will need to do a stripping run, water your alc down to 40% run again,water your alc down to 40% run again at a slower pace. so thats 3 runs with a potstill, if you want a neutral.
you can smell/ taste after the second run, if your happy leave it at that. If your not then put it back in and run it a 3rd time ;-)

[cdbrown]

Welcome citris - the two types of end spirit are also what I'm after. I'm currently doing a McStills version UJSM (4th gen ready for strip) for the bourbon and grain based wash with malted barley, barley and wheat (2nd gen ready for strip) for the scotch. Only very early days but hopefully it'll be all good. I've not done the TPW so can't help.

Stripping run is distilling the wash fast to remove the bulk of the water, spirit run is done slower for removing more of the water and doing cuts to get the spirit you want.

[Citris]

OK well I'm gonna go get the ingreadience, the HBS gave me the dreaded turbo yeast haha, I'll do a batch the way they said to keep them happy, and a couple of variations of TPW, my next one will be the corn mash, when I'm more adventures.

When doing a strip run, at what temp do you keep the pot still (Thermometer goes in the top), and then on the sprint run would it just be about 50c?

[MacStill]

On a pot still you dont try to keep it at a certain temp, that's only for a reflux still ;-)

For your stripping run just collect everything up to 98c (20%) and store it for you spirit run after you've done 2 or 4 strips.

[Citris]

OK well I have put my first 3 Washes down. First using 8kg dextrose, 2 satchel turbo yeast, and water Instructions exactly what the BHS gave me, since it came in the kit, I might as well see for myself. Tge second is a full TPW, by the book, 5kg table sugar, 200g tomato paste, 1/4 citric acid, 80g bakers yeast, then follows your instructions. The third is the same, but with 8kg dextrose instead of sugar (it was left over) might as well try it.

I'll give them all a try, choose my favorite (I'll probably put them on carbon and stop the still a little earlier) then in gonna get 2 nor fermenters and I'll make 5x per batch so I can strip all 5 then do a spirit run in a single batch. I was never one for pacients haha.

Do u guys suggest more then 7 days? Also do I just let it sit, no stiring, just sit, then distill? One more thing, do you guys just poor into the fermenter, or use the taps or syphon?

[R-sole]

Best off with one big fermenter than 5 little ones.

You wouldn't be the first to use a plastic 200l drum.

[Cane Toad]

:D

[Citris]

hahaha Holy Shit! Thats crazy Cupcake!

And thanks 5Star, the main reason I stick with the 30L ones is I can get them for free :), but I also like the fact that when they are ready, I just empty it into the still and each one fits perfect. I think if I had the money tho haha, that is pretty awesome.

Hey Cupcake, do you use them 30 odd jars for cuts? I was wondering how you guys do 200ml parts then work out your cuts later, and I'm guessing this is how? haha I need some jars!

P.S. My misses just pointed something out. When getting this kit, I said I could make her Vodka Cruises (Yeah I know...) so she would ignore the fact that I just spent $500+ on a spirits kit haha. However she just realised that there will be no carbonation in spirits like in beer, Has anyone tried putting pure spirits through the trusty SadaStream, before adding flavour and bottling? I might be better off asking in a new thread, but ill throw it in here first.

[Longknife]

Hi Citris
Be sure to let us other newbies know how your washes went. Iv just put down my first 2 ferments. 1 25l TPW and 1 21l turbo.
In a fairly cool room the turbo got up to nearly 40degs while the Tpw sitting next to it sat at a casual 30 odd. Didnt expect temps that high but
Im hoping it dosnt add crap flavours. Im running a t500 reflux so if it gives rough flavour will just run through again and hope that sorts it out.

It could be a stupid question but can anyone tell me should i still be trying to learn how to do cuts with the t500<while i save for a pot> or does the refluxing really blur the line between heads hearts tails and it all come out same flavour/smell? And do I really need to run my neutral through carbon if its been refluxed? I would have thought
the process would strip out any off flavours. Anyway it seems like if you stuff it up or arnt happy with it the advice is to just run it through again?
thanks to all the more experienced guys online for sharing their thoughts and advice with us new comers.

[Cane Toad]

Hi Citris, yeah go to overflow or a similar cheap shop and grab a box full of jars,when doing your spirit run fill them up and number them,when finished,cover them up and let em air for a day or 2.You'll be able to tell at this stage which are heads and tails.
After airing,dilute down a teaspoon of booze from each jar with a teaspoon of bottled water and taste,starting from the middle jar,and work your way out.Youll know when you're starting to get into the heads and tail,tails tastes and smells like wet cardboard,heads smells like nail polish remover and has a real bite to it.Its all practice :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Cane Toad]

Hi longknife,do yours the same way mate,just run it nice and steady,I'm pretty sure you can detune your t500 and run as a pot,there is a post in the refux section somewhere.
I've never owned a t500,but if you collect in small jars as explained above,you'll have it sussed in no time,I'm not too sure about the turbo you put down though mate,never used turbos :teasing-neener: :laughing-rolling: but great to see you having a go :handgestures-thumbupleft:
PS I use I fermenter for UJ and one for rum :handgestures-thumbupleft: :handgestures-thumbupleft:

[Citris]

Thanks Cupcake

I just got my first batch out, only got about 2-3L I don't know if that's normal (Unfortunately I cant test what % yet either because I broke my Alcometer). Just a questions, Before you let them sit for 2 days, do they have a strong smell, I'd even say it burn the nose a bit.

heads smells like nail polish remover and has a real bite to it.

<- I would describe it all like this at the moment haha.

Edit: Further testing (I got a new Alcometer) shows that about the middle glass is 50%. Not that great really, probably a crap POT still (As someone sorta touched on earlier :angry-banghead: ). They have been sitting for close to 48 hours now, and they still have a strong smell, but again, this is my first batch, its hard to tell what they are supposed to smell like, or taste like. I have some standard (Low grade) vodka sitting here, should the distilled alcohol taste similar to this (At 40%)? I'm just trying to get my bearings...

[Citris]

Oh and one more thing... I noticed my pot still has no copper at all... I don't know weather that could affect the end smells and taste, but some suggest it does... Maybe im in the market for a new still before I really begin. :o

[MacStill]

Oh and one more thing... I noticed my pot still has no copper at all... I don't know weather that could affect the end smells and taste, but some suggest it does... Maybe im in the market for a new still before I really begin. :o

You really do want some copper in there somewhere, it helps to remove sulphides which is what your probably smelling ;-)

[Citris]

Could I just add say, a copper funnel?

I would really like yo make (Or buy) somthing like you guys have, they look amazing for one, and im sure they are, faster, better, stronger ;) . Where do you guys source your copper piping and fittings from, and are there plans anywhere, or do you work from your heads? Some of the Pot stills I have seen browsing through this forum are brilliant, Id probably just sit it in the corner of the room and stare at it... :laughing-rolling:

[SBB]

Putting some small pieces of copper in the bottom of your boiler should help to some degree. Not as much as having the alc run through a copper still, but it should help a little.

[Citris]

Thanx SBB,

I will try that, but I will only be using the still for one more run, Ima get me one of them McStill masterpiece Pot Stills :D . I'm keeping the boiler tho. At least until I get to a flavour I am happy with. Tax refunds soon so, Tax money = Pot Still = Not paying tax on spirits, its a viscous cycle... lol

Longknife, I'm no expert (Obviously) but ill tell you what I have learnt from my first 3 runs.
* TPW beats a Turbo Wash any day, about 1/3 the price (Or better), Smells better, Taste better. (I have tried both myself now).
* When doing a TPW, I tried both with 5kg White Table Sugar, and 6kg Dextrose (I had left over). Use White sugar, dextrose produces half as much yield, and taste pretty bad.
* Using the jar (Or in my case, 30 250ml glasses) makes it so much easier to make cuts, especially for your first time.
* Carbon doesn't seem to do much, but this might need further testing, I split one of the jars (200ml) in 2, and put one half on carbon, did a blind taste test, didn't notice a difference, I actually chose the one that wasn't on carbon as tasting better, so I thing (When using the TPW correctly) it is just another waste of money, But some of the more experienced guys here might have some more information on this.

Thats all I can think of. I started a little journal for taste tests, my rating and friends ratings, to keep track of what I like, and have already tried. I think its a good idea. I notice others on here do it also. so far I can tell you this... (I cant figure out how to insert html into the post so ill just say what I tried).
Still Spirits - Classic Whiskey - Didn't like this at all, but I am not a whiskey drinker so I am yet to get a second opinion. :puke-huge:
Gold Medal - Bodines Sour Mash Bourbon - It's drinkable, but its not really a strong taste, when mixed with coke, the flavours get lost. :-?

Thanks again for all your help guys, I look forward to tipsi-posting on here in the future :laughing-rolling:

:text-thankyoublue:
McStill, 5Star, Cupcake, SBB, Kimbo, cdbrown and anyone else I might have missed