re;epsom salts and citric acid

Sugar wash info and questions

re;epsom salts and citric acid

Postby jimthirks » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:29 am

why are citric acid and epsom salts added to a tpw?
ive had a search and can heaps of recipes that say to add them but not why
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Re: re;epsom salts and citric acid

Postby Sam. » Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:37 am

citric acid is used to lower the ph a bit so the yeast can work better.

Epsom salts are added as a nutrient for the yeast :handgestures-thumbupleft:
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Re: re;epsom salts and citric acid

Postby Popcorn Jack » Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:54 pm

Citrus acid boost your waters ph. Yeast enjoy a more acidic environment.

Epsom salts, or magnesium sulphate increases the hardness ( + in minerals) of the water. Which improves water quality.
Some town water is soft(- in minerals)

you can usually find your local water info from your local counsel.
I find the water info more important when brewing beer or wine.

Here is a bit of info for ya
http://homedistiller.org/wash/ferment/nutrients

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Re: re;epsom salts and citric acid

Postby SBB » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:18 pm

From my understanding there is a lot more than just that to the Epsom salts, or magnesium sulphate thing, Yeasts like magnesium ......it has something to do with how the yeast cells multiply and clump together, or don't clump together, Had to many rums right now and I ain't about to go searching for the technical word for word correct answer.
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Re: re;epsom salts and citric acid

Postby kelbygreen » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:38 pm

in beer PH is critical to the extreme brewer they go to the lengths of reverse osmosis the water and adding salt and minerals to mimic the water from where the beer is brewed. I dont go this far but it has a impact that is for sure, plus they use the grain sourced from that area lol.

Doubt you want that but yes getting the PH is critical as the yeast have a tolerance like many others. I have not read up to much on yeast, I have just gone of guides people have put up but in the beer world there are many guys that are into all that jizz lol

Plus every yeast is different so its a bit to much to learn it all but in distilling if you use the same yeast all the time then it isnt so bad but usually its bakers yeast and that has not been tested heaps by brewers. Sure there is a ideal range though and stick to that.
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Re: re;epsom salts and citric acid

Postby bt1 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:05 am

Hello jim,

Just a couple pts.

Citric is not required in a TPW. Tomato paste by itself is around a pH of 4.2 and is well below optimal yeast pH. Yeasts especially generalised yeasts need to be in the 5.0 to 5.5 range. A portion of paste in a normally sized wash would bring your pH range in line with yeasts happy range.

Citric gets added to TPW as a recipe hangover from other wash types recipes notably DWWG( where wash is essentially near neutal) etc and ppl not testing pH of wash starts.

Conversely, citiric can be used in inverting plain table sugars to a single sugar type( fairly close anyway) which assists yeast speed, wash ferment times etc. Kinda like yeast on Dextrose vs. a multi sugar which table sugar is, frucrtose and glucose and other shite.

There are some arguements around that state inverting sugars adds little value. This is true for a TPW imho as there no gain to be had in a "super clean" ferment that a single sugar offers. If you where persuing a fine beer wash especially longer brewed cold temp largers using bottom fermenting yeasts or imho a fine AG whisky there is some value in inverting.

SBB hit the nail on the head with Epsom salts. If used by yeasts when they divide in cell wall regen and cell wall growth...it's not truly a yeast "food" but some magnesium compounds are consumed.
Here lies another one that still intrigues me no end...For rum washes using molasses there's enough natural mag compounds in it naturally(drived from cane itself, but notable lower in sugar beets) and i've yet to find a good reason to add it.

Bugga used my 2 pts up!
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