Tomato Paste Wash (TPW) Recipe Discussion

[slideshowbob]

They do work out of the box , but they do come with calibration powders and instructions

Mine is not working. Though could be user error. Can I PM you?

[The Stig]

Sure

[slideshowbob]

On the topic of the TPW wash, I have one about ready for a stripping run.

Given the choice, would you strip this through the alcoengine pot still or reflux still?

I am leaning towards the pot still, as I assume it will be faster. My understanding is the ABV will be lower, but that isn't an issue as the collected low wines will then go through the reflux still for a slow spirit run at a later date? My solar panels mean I can run the pot still strip run for a long while without being concerned about electrickery usage.

[The Stig]

They do work out of the box , but they do come with calibration powders and instructions

Mine is not working. Though could be user error. Can I PM you?

PM and email sent.

[howard]

On the topic of the TPW wash, I have one about ready for a stripping run.

Given the choice, would you strip this through the alcoengine pot still or reflux still?

I am leaning towards the pot still, as I assume it will be faster. My understanding is the ABV will be lower, but that isn't an issue as the collected low wines will then go through the reflux still for a slow spirit run at a later date? My solar panels mean I can run the pot still strip run for a long while without being concerned about electrickery usage.

a lot of folk strip a wash through a pot still first, as fast as your condenser can handle.
then the low wines are refluxed slowly.

this time of year in Oz is good for doing multiple washes without the need for too much fuss over temp control.
i usually do 2 x 25L washes in the fermentation fridge and 2 x 25L washes in the open air at this time of year.
then i can strip 4 x washes and do a full size reflux run.
low wines can be kept for a long time also.

i use these fermenters, they are a good fit for my fridges, match my boiler size, but they also stack when unused.
https://thehomebrewshop.com.au/product/fermenter-30-litre-pail-mangrove-jacks/

[slideshowbob]

a lot of folk strip a wash through a pot still first, as fast as your condenser can handle.
then the low wines are refluxed slowly.

Pot still it is for stripping!

I've got this recent TPW, one previously stripped TPW low wines collection sitting in the shed, and I was wondering whether I can add in 4L of feints from my last wbab spirit run into the (mainly) TPW reflux spirit run... :think:

My other 3 fermenters are ticking along with wbab, 2nd gen.

[The Stig]

Yep , chuck it all in as long as your ABV is below 40% your good to go

[slideshowbob]

Yep , chuck it all in as long as your ABV is below 40% your good to go

Sweet. Have added all to the boiler. The Kegland alcometer reads 45%, the Alcometer that came with the parrot from 5 Star reads 40%. I've diluted down to about 42% and 37% respectively.

[The Stig]

To test an alcometer just boil some water and let it cool to 20 degrees C
Alcometer should read 0

[slideshowbob]

To test an alcometer just boil some water and let it cool to 20 degrees C
Alcometer should read 0

Well that's odd, with water at 20.3 degrees, both alcometers read a smidge below 0.

[corrymeela]

love tomato wash

[Shayned]

When running TPW what sort of smells/flavours should I be looking for when deciding on cuts. Alternatively what should hearts taste like? Thanks in advance.

[EziTasting]

When running TPW what sort of smells/flavours should I be looking for when deciding on cuts. Alternatively what should hearts taste like? Thanks in advance.

TPW is for making neutral... if you got flavours you've done it wrong.
It's a bullet proof recipe and it's difficult to mess up, I managed it once at my beginning, so cut yourself some slack and have a go.
In my siggy is a link on how to do good cuts, read it memorize it and that'll sort of most of your potential issues.
I find Heads to be 'spicy' or 'prickly' on the tongue, hearts essentially are smoothe and just warm your mouth, tails... everyone's different expression of it, you'll find yours. But tails usually come after the hearts... enjoy.

[TheRealMrMessy]

When running TPW what sort of smells/flavours should I be looking for when deciding on cuts. Alternatively what should hearts taste like? Thanks in advance.

Ezi beat me to it apparently... What'll you be doing the run with mate? Pot? Reflux? Single batch? Strip runs and a spirit run?

TPW for me (reflux and strip/spirit runs) is usually about mouthfeel making the heads to hearts cut (stops being prickly on the tongue), and I can usually tell visually on my still when tails is about 15min away from starting, but make that cut by taste (you'll know it when you find it). You shouldn't have much in the way of smell to go by.

[Shayned]

When running TPW what sort of smells/flavours should I be looking for when deciding on cuts. Alternatively what should hearts taste like? Thanks in advance.

Ezi beat me to it apparently... What'll you be doing the run with mate? Pot? Reflux? Single batch? Strip runs and a spirit run?

TPW for me (reflux and strip/spirit runs) is usually about mouthfeel making the heads to hearts cut (stops being prickly on the tongue), and I can usually tell visually on my still when tails is about 15min away from starting, but make that cut by taste (you'll know it when you find it). You shouldn't have much in the way of smell to go by.

Thanks for replying, I’ve made a lot of country fruit wines successfully over the years and in that respect I think the wash has come out well.
, particularly with the ease of making this recipe.

I am using a second hand Frankenstein Still which is set up as a reflux still. It has a variable power control, a seperate water cooling system (so no worries about changes in water pressure) and four temp gauges but I am only really looking at the one at the top just above the reflux area, it stayed at a constant 78 c until near the end of the run (abv started to drop and started to get a burnt electrical wire/ wet cardboard sort of smell) and the temp started to climb a couple of degrees. I altered power input and water flow through reflux area to get back down. When the smell got really bad I stopped, the offtake also started to look like it was an oily quality?

I was taking off about 350 ml per jar and checking abv on each one, the abv stayed between 90 and 95% approx until the end of the run.

Quite a lot of collected spirit had quite a sweet smell to it and to be honest I am struggling to find good descriptions for smells and flavours. I also learnt something quite important 90%+ abv doesn’t do your taste buds any favours.

Soi guess I’m asking when we say neutral what does that taste like to you? I would be grateful for any help at this stage.

[Shayned]

When running TPW what sort of smells/flavours should I be looking for when deciding on cuts. Alternatively what should hearts taste like? Thanks in advance.

TPW is for making neutral... if you got flavours you've done it wrong.
It's a bullet proof recipe and it's difficult to mess up, I managed it once at my beginning, so cut yourself some slack and have a go.
In my siggy is a link on how to do good cuts, read it memorize it and that'll sort of most of your potential issues.
I find Heads to be 'spicy' or 'prickly' on the tongue, hearts essentially are smoothe and just warm your mouth, tails... everyone's different expression of it, you'll find yours. But tails usually come after the hearts... enjoy.

Thanks Ezi I will look for the link and see what I can glean from that, I put a longer response above this one and would appreciate it if you would take a look to see if anything stupid jumps out at you in terms of technique. Much appreciate your help mate.

[EziTasting]

Thanks Ezi I will look for the link and see what I can glean from that, I put a longer response above this one and would appreciate it if you would take a look to see if anything stupid jumps out at you in terms of technique. Much appreciate your help mate.

Separation into smaller jars is good, so the next important thing is to 'leave jars covered with a cloth' over night! This will further clean up your spirit. Tomorrow, with a notepad and pen record your jars, smell the contents (gently or you'll blow your olfactory senses) and note what you smell. Heads often, but not always have a methanol/turps or nail polish remover smelll. Hearts has (or should have) very little fragrance but may smell sweet with a hint of tomato..., tails... just smell wrong imo!

Once you got that done, grab a big glass of water and a teaspoon and then taste from the centre outwards... just dip the teaspoon in let it drip off and then into your mouth allowing your saliva to mix with the spirit. Make notes... is it warm and fuzzy, prickly or just plain wrong... there will be 'some' taste to the spirit because of the ingredients, but they'll be quite faint, and your interpretation will be different to mine, so focus less on the flavour and more on the process & doing it safely!
I usually end up with around 9-10% of the fermented volume @ 40%ABV when doing TPW... so you'll have plenty to enjoy.

[Shayned]

Thanks Ezi I will look for the link and see what I can glean from that, I put a longer response above this one and would appreciate it if you would take a look to see if anything stupid jumps out at you in terms of technique. Much appreciate your help mate.

Separation into smaller jars is good, so the next important thing is to 'leave jars covered with a cloth' over night! This will further clean up your spirit. Tomorrow, with a notepad and pen record your jars, smell the contents (gently or you'll blow your olfactory senses) and note what you smell. Heads often, but not always have a methanol/turps or nail polish remover smelll. Hearts has (or should have) very little fragrance but may smell sweet with a hint of tomato..., tails... just smell wrong imo!

Once you got that done, grab a big glass of water and a teaspoon and then taste from the centre outwards... just dip the teaspoon in let it drip off and then into your mouth allowing your saliva to mix with the spirit. Make notes... is it warm and fuzzy, prickly or just plain wrong... there will be 'some' taste to the spirit because of the ingredients, but they'll be quite faint, and your interpretation will be different to mine, so focus less on the flavour and more on the process & doing it safely!
I usually end up with around 9-10% of the fermented volume @ 40%ABV when doing TPW... so you'll have plenty to enjoy.

Thanks mate, much appreciated. I have the jars sitting under tea towels at the moment. Will give it the note book test tomorrow. Picked up the nail polish remover in the fore shots and chucked that plus a little extra, the last two jars just really smelled bad to me. The mouth feel thing sounds really interesting. Thanks for your help.

[TheRealMrMessy]

All great advice from Ezi. Once you do the run a handful of times you'll find your groove with the process. You'll know around when by volume things can be expected, have more experience running the still for better consistency and control, etc.

Tasting off the still is the best way, but until you are used to tasing high proof you might numb the senses and that's why the idea of watering down and working through the run is important. I don't do cuts for a whole run, only around the transitions, but I know what to look for/taste for/etc. because of lessons learnt following the good advice Ezi is giving above. Take it slowly and maximise the lessons you can learn each run :handgestures-thumbupleft: . Don't sweat it if you mess up the cuts - water it down under 40% and chuck it through again.

Ah - I see the update that you are done. Good stuff! Be mindful when you water down that it's going to seem a bit rougher than it will after resting for a week or two - same if you use some essences, they'll improve after resting for a week or two. You aren't too worried about that roughness or the taste (unless something is obviously well out of the ordinary). The difference between the heads prickliness/sharpness vs just hot ethanol is something you'll notice. You already mentioned the gross tails taste haha.

[cj41]

Well you had me convinced on the tomato wash so I started one last night 25 ltrs, by some of the posts in here I'm in good company, :puke-huge:
Due to it being cold here I wrapped my 30ltr bucket in bubble wrap to keep it warm on the heat pad and it barfed over night (only a little on the wall), threw my other airlock in before work and waiting to see what happens, currently not bubbling but will wait.
Very tempted to get 5 kgs of white sugar and do a 2nd wash as I have 2 heat pads

My wash
5kgs raw sugar
200ish grms pams tomato paste
1/4 teaspoon citric acid
80 ish grms sure to rise yeast in 300 mls warm water while mixing the wash
wash at 30 C when added the yeast mix stirred a bit then on the heat pad and wrapped in bubble wrap and walked away.