GBarb wrote:Anyone use SC with FFV on the spirit run?
I don’t want to strip any flavour from the end product, and wondering if it is going to make much of a difference.
I certainly wouldn’t use on a whiskey or bourbon, so just wondering if adding the SC to FFV would strip that slight wheat flavour we are aiming for.
EziTasting wrote:
Not sure what you mean by SC, but this isn’t meant as a flavoured recipe; it’s called Teddy’s Fast Fermenting Vodka. Vodka is as flavourless as possible... so those of us making this are stripping the flavour on purpose...
db1979 wrote:I just had a quick read around the subject, I've read about it before but never bothered with it.
I'm guessing you had a typo, and meant to type esters, not eaters?
From what I found, esters, water and ethanol (as well as all other higher alcohols) all form azeotropes. Many on here know what an azeotrope is, but for those that don't, an azeotrope is a mixture where all components boil and condense in the same proportions - means they can't be separated by distillation.
Methanol doesn't form an azeotrope with water but ethanol does. Which is why we can never get higher than 95.63% abv from distillation. Ethanol, water and esters also form tertiary (three component) azeotropes (plural because there are a number of different esters in our washes). These azeotropes will be part of the heads cut which is why there is so much ethanol left in heads. These azeotropes give way to the water/ethanol azeotrope once all the esters have been removed from the still.
There are a number of ways to break an ethanol/ester/water azeotrope, the only suitable way to us is to use salt to break the azeotrope. I'm not sure what breaking this type of azeotrope would achieve but because salts are far more soluble in water than ethanol (and insoluble in esters) it is most likely that salt would remove water from the azeotrope, where we would prefer the ethanol to be removed from the ester/ethanol/water azeotropes (so it can be distilled with the hearts in the ethanol/water azeotrope).
Why all this talk about salts? Sodium carbonate is a salt.
Sodium carbonate is also basic, it raises pH. Since ester formation (a reaction between an alcohol and a carboxylic acid - both of which are found in our boilers) is acid OR base catalysed, it happens much faster at pHs far removed from neutral (pH = 7). Reflux is also often required.
So by adding sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate, potassium carbonate etc in theory should have a benefit to stop extra esters from forming in the reflux column (due to a more neutral pH) and help to break the ester/ethanol/water azeotrope (but by excluding water as discussed above). Managing a neutral pH may also help to cleave esters back into carboxylic acids and alcohols, but I'm not sure if we'd notice any difference.
As far as flavour goes, the esters are some of the flavour chemicals in our products (along with aldehydes and higher alcohols... and who knows what). So I guess, based on what I've already said, it is likely that sodium carbonate will remove flavour from the product of this wash. Maybe it helps in a positive way, by removing flavour components that mask nicer flavours, or maybe it encourages esters that have a positive impact on flavour to end up in the heads. Only one way to know.
Give it a go.
db1979 wrote:Sorry for the information overload :violence-smack:
Surely it'll help someone though :-B
EziTasting wrote:db1979 wrote:Sorry for the information overload :violence-smack:
Surely it'll help someone though :-B
No need to apologise, ima bit of a science geek myself! Wish I would naive followed the Chemistry path when younger! Always enjoyed it, but never took it seriously as an employment opportunity... :angry-banghead:
Hindsight is 20/20!
GBarb wrote:Explains it perfectly.
On another note, anyone used actually wheat in their recipee before instead of wheat bran
bayshine wrote:What I can’t understand is that there’s now 15 pages on this thread and this recipe isn’t in the tried and proven yet? :teasing-tease:
Teddysad wrote:I did try wheat in the early stages of development of this but found the required flavour did not come through ( even with the cooking)
I stick with the bran
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