Foreshots

[Pugdog1]

Hey guys been a while since I've posted here (more of a Lurker than a poster). But I'm posting one for a mate.

So the other day he was doing a run and had to turn it off half way through than switch it back on a couple of hours later to finish it off. He asked if he needed to take the foreshots out again I said no as I have always been of the impression that once you remove the methanol etc in the first run it is all gone. Than the next day he went to the brew shop (livid lhbs fan, he is running turbos by the way) and asked the guys there about it and they told him everytime he hears his still up he would need to take out foreshots as methanol is produced by the heating up of the wash etc. so if you base it on the lhbs every time I hear a wash up I'd be removing 100ml for foreshots including on a double and triple distill.

I didn't want to tell my mate they were wrong without knowing for sure as its a pretty big safety issue but if he triple distills it could potentially save him 200ml of 94% which adds up overtime. So feel free to tell me how it is as my searches didn't show much specifically related to my question


Thanks in advance for the help

[MickC]

Sounds like more HBS bullshit...

From my limited understanding the fermentation process creates the methanol not the heating ?
Heating and distillation only separates, concentrates and removes the different fractions ?

[Zak Griffin]

You've only got to have a smell of the first 100ml of a restarted run to know that you shouldn't be drinking it mate.

He's obviously not making any cuts (apart from foreshots) anyway, so quality must not be a priority... For what it's worth there will be fuck all methanol in a sugar wash, the fores are more Acetone etc.

The HBS is half right... But as Mick said, methanol is created by fermentation, not heating up prior to distillation.

[bluess57]

Use the science...Methanol has a boiling point of 64.7 °C
By the time you are "halfway" thru a run you are into Ethanol with a BP of 78.37 °C
Stopping and restarting a run "halfway", all the Methanol will already have boiled off.

lol... >> "as methanol is produced by the heating up of the wash"
Nothing is produced by heating up the wash, except a state change of the components involved i.e. from liquid to gas/vapour
A condenser reverses that state back from gas/vapour to liquid.

[Zak Griffin]

Foreshots is more than just methanol though.

Also, the way our hobby stills, especially a short one like the T500, are designed, you are never going to achieve perfect separation of the fractions.

I wouldn't call the first 100ml of a restarted run fores, but I certainly wouldnt put it in with the hearts!

[bluess57]

Foreshots is more than just methanol though.

Also, the way our hobby stills, especially a short one like the T500, are designed, you are never going to achieve perfect separation of the fractions.

I wouldn't call the first 100ml of a restarted run fores, but I certainly wouldnt put it in with the hearts!

The OP seemed particularly worried about methanol, and granted the separation of fractions won't be perfect.
Agree that restarting a run and discarding an amount of fores is going to result in a better tasting product.

[Pugdog1]

I only mention methanol specifically because that was this guys concern I'm aware that it is more than methanol. And I was thinking along the same line about it being bull to be honest.

He wasn't doing cuts in this run as it was a stripping run but I'm trying to get him to do cuts as well as switch to a tpw recipe because he is keen on quality but at same time he thinks his turbos are pretty super at the moment so it's a hard convert.

I myself run a t500 he runs something that someone else put together and gave him and it's shorter than my t500 by a lot.

I guess a more relevant question would be is he gonna poison himself if he doesn't take foreshots off every time he does a run even on double distill or a restart. I know a restart isn't exactly gonna get him good quality but he is a family man and sometimes he has to turn it off if something goes wrong.

[Zak Griffin]

I wouldn't take a second fores cut on a strip run ;-)

I also can't see the point of having the reflux condenser wind it's way through the entire height of the column? The idea of refluxing is to let the fractions separate themselves from top to bottom, something that isn't happening when you try to cool down the whole column.

He's not going to hurt himself any more than he already is by not making cuts if he doesn't toss the first bit of a restarted run.

[Pugdog1]

If he takes the fores in the first run would he need to in the second run for cuts?

And he told me it doesn't have a coil inside that it just has those pipes go straight through Than link up with plastic tubes so the water can flow through each pipe for the cooling. Here is pick of it assembled

He has added an extension on that since than that I can see in the first pic

[Zak Griffin]

Get him to start making actual cuts and he'll very very quickly see what we mean.

I know there's no coil in there, that's a pretty old style reflux still that would be better off turned into a pot and use for flavoured washes. I guess there's no copper in the vapour path either? And it wouldn't hurt to lose that plastic take-off hose either.

[Teddysad]

While I agree that the first run will have taken care if most of the nasties, I believe that the first 100ml from a restarted run should be consigned into the feints jar

[Pugdog1]

ok thanks guys that should solve most his questions.

I agree on the pot still conversion. It does ok for neutral though. And it does have copper saddles in the packing